Margartia Forster

00:00:02:10 – 00:00:22:13
Speaker 1
That was the moment, you know, a changing moment in the life. Because we had our first baby, our son Nicholas. You know, in that moment, many things change the way you see life, because suddenly you start from being one to being two, and to start thinking about what is going to happen to this person, how it is going to grow.

00:00:22:15 – 00:00:52:20
Speaker 1
Will you have the same chances or the chances that I wish for him? So Nicholas was born. I went with him to Ecuador and, just actually, by chance, my mother, Nicholas, and me, we visited, home for single mums. But entering in this place was a moment of, you know, no return. It’s like you see these, you cannot unsee it.

00:00:52:22 – 00:01:27:18
Speaker 2
Hello and welcome back to Shift Happens. Today I’m in conversation with Margarita Forster. She joins me from Zurich. Originally, Margarita is from Ecuador. She is telling the story that after the birth of her first child, she went to a shelter for women in Ecuador with her mother. And they realized. And she realized because she felt so vulnerable, as we all do when we have little babies, then we suddenly see more of the world and see more of the needs of the world.

00:01:27:20 – 00:02:00:23
Speaker 2
And that’s how it actually started. She brought things she thought women in these shelters needed. And then over time they realize, of course, other things. And in the end, what is the big realization is that talent and resilience and determination is really found everywhere, but the opportunities are not. So Margarita really has dedicated her professional life to helping women access the opportunities they need to thrive.

00:02:01:00 – 00:02:27:01
Speaker 2
So enjoy this really interesting conversation and please look up in the show notes because I have all the links in there. If you are interested in handmade products.

00:02:27:03 – 00:02:51:19
Speaker 2
So hello and welcome to Shift Happens Margarita Forster. I’m really excited that you have the time for this conversation, because I know that you have busy days ahead of you in Zurich, the Ateliers days, and we will talk about those later. Before we get started, I wanted to ask you Apple or oranges?

00:02:51:21 – 00:02:55:24
Speaker 1
Oranges. And thank you very much for having me over.

00:02:56:01 – 00:02:59:15
Speaker 2
You’re welcome. Still a sparkling.

00:02:59:17 – 00:03:01:12
Speaker 1
Steal.

00:03:01:14 – 00:03:09:01
Speaker 2
Dogs or cats? Cats. What was a moment last week that made you laugh?

00:03:09:03 – 00:03:33:00
Speaker 1
Oh, and, Good question. Well, talking to my children, it always me. I know, I know, my daughter sent me a picture of her new haircut, and, But before she sent the picture, she told me, mama, I know you are not going to like it. And then she sent the picture, and then I realized how. I mean, I think she looks beautiful, but I realize what she meant before.

00:03:33:00 – 00:03:37:02
Speaker 1
So she was preparing, but I didn’t really I good love.

00:03:37:04 – 00:03:38:04
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:03:38:06 – 00:03:45:16
Speaker 1
I see.

00:03:45:18 – 00:04:20:05
Speaker 2
So you, active in South America? You yourself come from Ecuador. And for 25 years you have now running the Fondation Avanzar in Switzerland and in Ecuador. And, that’s a huge endeavor that you not only took on, but built out. So, can you just give a little bit of background to, as a young Ecuadorian walking around your areas, what struck you the most?

00:04:20:06 – 00:04:47:22
Speaker 1
That was before. Just before we started. That was the moment, with, you know, a changing moment in the life because we had our first, baby, our son Nicolas. You know, in that moment, many things change, especially the way you see life and the way you see opportunities, because suddenly you start from being one to being two, and to start thinking about what is going to happen to this person, how is is going to grow?

00:04:47:24 – 00:05:11:05
Speaker 1
Will you have the same chances or the chances that I wish for him? And in this process, I went to Ecuador. So Nicolas was born. I went with him to Ecuador, to present him to my family. And, just actually, by chance, my mother, Nicolas, and me, we visited, home for single mums. So Nicolas was a baby.

00:05:11:07 – 00:05:33:01
Speaker 1
We were there. And this home for single mums. That actually, we went there just because we wanted to have something wash by hand. That was the reason to go there. But entering in this place was a moment of, you know, no return. It’s like, you see these. You cannot unsee it. Suddenly you cannot, does it?

00:05:33:03 – 00:06:00:08
Speaker 1
And it stays with you because, and so all these young mothers with their children, children that many of them didn’t, plan so very young. And one of the things that, that I realized is my home where I grew up, wasn’t that far away from this place. Means it had been living kind of, I don’t know, just a couple hundred meters away from each other.

00:06:00:10 – 00:06:20:10
Speaker 1
And my life has been so different to these ladies. And the life of my son will be so different to their children. And yeah, I mean I actually it was a very, if I would have been working or doing other things, I would have not had the time to do to do what I did afterwards.

00:06:20:12 – 00:06:41:15
Speaker 1
But I think it was meant to be because I was there having a little child that made me see so many things that I didn’t see before, and I had quit my job when Nicolas was born. And then I came back, to Switzerland after my visit. And, I just, my heart just wanted, needed to do something.

00:06:41:17 – 00:06:50:18
Speaker 1
So I spoke with a few friends, and we started doing little events in order to fundraise. So there was a very, very beginning.

00:06:50:20 – 00:07:08:16
Speaker 2
And look at you now, I mean you have you brought other designers in. I mean they all probably do their own things, but you really grew the initiative and the activity and also to be independent of the commercial route. Right. One could take with developing brands.

00:07:08:17 – 00:07:09:16
Speaker 1
Yes.

00:07:09:18 – 00:07:28:18
Speaker 2
I mean, that’s a really moving story and I’m sure that many people can or many women can relate to it that suddenly when you have the baby, it really it almost comes like with a strike, you see you see first of all you see. And then you see things differently and you understand much more.

00:07:28:19 – 00:07:29:04
Speaker 1
Yes.

00:07:29:06 – 00:07:47:19
Speaker 2
And you use this energy for something very beautiful. So how did you then. So you said you started in Switzerland with a small group and you started to fundraise. Did you have a focus? I mean, who was the group that you wanted to help the most and why?

00:07:47:21 – 00:08:12:02
Speaker 1
So actually the, the focus because at that point I didn’t know that it was going to become a foundation. The focus at that very moment was to help those women and those children. There’s like around 20 young women and 30 children around. And my focus was what can I do. So before coming back here, I, I checked with my mother.

00:08:12:06 – 00:08:36:19
Speaker 1
We check the house and make kind of a little list, okay? Mattresses and, and they needed more bathrooms and more showers, you know, very punctual things. So that was the very first focus was to give them a little bit more, comfort and, and especially that they were in a safer place because the place they were leaving was not safe at all for them or for the children.

00:08:36:21 – 00:08:59:22
Speaker 1
And we did that one, I think, 3 or 4 years in a row. And every time I went back to Ecuador, I visited the place, and I saw the same sad faces. So then you realize, okay, some more comfort doesn’t change people’s life. It was. I’m sure they were. Or I hope they were sleeping a little bit better than before.

00:08:59:22 – 00:09:20:09
Speaker 1
But still life was remained the same for the women. And then it’s when we start trying for the person really talking to the women that assuming what they need, but really talking to them and asking them, okay, what is it? And then they, they said, well, you know, we can stay in the home two years. After two years, we have to leave.

00:09:20:10 – 00:09:40:09
Speaker 1
We have to start thinking as soon as we get in, we have to start thinking what will happen two years later. And we have nothing after. So when we leave, we have nothing. And then we realized that. Or we what? Actually, we thought that we would like to offer them money. And they saw it and they,

00:09:40:11 – 00:09:42:09
Speaker 1
Yeah. And they.

00:09:42:11 – 00:09:42:21
Speaker 2
Took the.

00:09:42:21 – 00:10:10:02
Speaker 1
Opportunity. Exactly. They took the opportunity was, that they started learning the simple things. So it’s quite simple things that they could do start doing as a business. They, the house where they were living, they have bakery. And it has also pasta fabric. Both. We’re not so used because they did and it was not up to the aid, and it was all machines.

00:10:10:02 – 00:10:37:14
Speaker 1
And but we started helping them to put, everything up to date in order for them to start working there, to start learning how to bake, how to do pasta, how to do, to start thinking about a business, how to look at the, you know, in the surrounding the city, the, the whereas all other bakeries, what products could they develop in order to, to be more interesting than the other, places?

00:10:37:14 – 00:11:14:22
Speaker 1
And so on and on. So we started with, with, vocational training with this ladies. And that was, let’s see, the, the beginning of where Avanzar is right now, because right now Unsat is really about entrepreneurship for ladies, for a woman, young woman, older woman. But it’s really about entrepreneurship in many different, areas. So now we cover, gastronomy, bakery, beauty, massage, photography and everything that the ladies do to make out of this a business.

00:11:14:22 – 00:11:23:21
Speaker 1
So they learn how to do their accounting, they learn how to do a, a, a business plan. They learn how to photograph their products, to upload them to Facebook. Yep.

00:11:24:02 – 00:11:24:14
Speaker 2

00:11:24:16 – 00:11:27:06
Speaker 1
So what nowadays you need to, to.

00:11:27:06 – 00:11:47:14
Speaker 2
Start this is amazing. And but what struck me also was that you realize you had something in mind to make it, you know, pretty, like, put new mattresses and probably new towels and all of that. But then to realize like that, you know, why don’t we ask, why don’t we just assume? But that really is a process, right?

00:11:47:15 – 00:11:57:14
Speaker 2
If, if when you come from different worlds, no matter how it’s about asking the questions, what the problems are and what the needs are. Yeah.

00:11:57:16 – 00:11:57:24
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00:11:57:24 – 00:12:05:21
Speaker 2
And then it gets depth and it’s authentic. And it has also real meaning. And it’s substantial for the women to build up their businesses.

00:12:05:23 – 00:12:23:10
Speaker 1
Yeah yeah yeah. And you have to keep digging all the time because it’s not, you know, in the moment that you start asking, of course they say, you know what, I would like to earn money then come to next question. So what do, what do you know how to do or what? How do you see yourself earning money?

00:12:23:12 – 00:12:42:02
Speaker 1
Is there something that you have learned before? Is there something that you would like to to try to learn? Where could you sell your services or you, you know, start like a, like a very long process trying to find out what is the way that they that you will do them the best in order to, to start.

00:12:42:06 – 00:12:43:08
Speaker 1

00:12:43:10 – 00:13:11:19
Speaker 2
I remember many, many years ago I did one of the first events for women in New York City. And I think actually I collaborated with the Austrian embassy at that point and we had someone from the Norwegian ministry there who was focusing on women, and she talked about women and entrepreneurship and how important it is that women, you know, get into the workforce, either as entrepreneurs or as leaders.

00:13:11:21 – 00:13:34:24
Speaker 2
And then she said, let me introduce you to a leader of a team of ten people. And she built her business, and then she showed a short movie about a woman in Brazil, I think, Sao Paulo, who is collecting garbage because, like going through the garbage to collect, like everything that needs to be recycled and things that she gets, maybe, you know, some like a few cents for and so on.

00:13:35:01 – 00:13:46:09
Speaker 2
And I realized in myself how unconsciously biased I was in a way that I assumed I would see a movie of a woman sitting at a desk.

00:13:46:11 – 00:13:47:16
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00:13:47:18 – 00:14:15:11
Speaker 2
You know, so the amounts and the variation of businesses that are possible and really, like a means of survival for for generations, that is important. And, yeah, it really is good if there are organizations like yours who are not only helping in Ecuador, but who are bridging for our especially in Switzerland, rather, you know, rich and content alive.

00:14:15:13 – 00:14:31:16
Speaker 2
To be able to see that, to understand that, how was your how was the feedback in Switzerland when you started to grow this, were people open and were they a full on in support or were you more by yourself.

00:14:31:18 – 00:14:54:13
Speaker 1
I had been I have really received lots of support, I must say. I’m a big fan of Switzerland in that sense. I know the US is wonderful. I think US started with the whole, philanthropy, making it big and making it loud, I like that. Switzerland has very it has always been a humble place.

00:14:54:13 – 00:15:15:02
Speaker 1
People don’t tell you. You can’t really tell what people has of. They don’t have. But you can come to so many, surprises on the way, people who are extremely helpful. And they are they also want to be part of this, which is I. So I think that I think it’s very beautiful. It’s not just about giving money.

00:15:15:06 – 00:15:36:06
Speaker 1
Yeah. Many people who they go to Ecuador, they participate in many of the events we do like we are doing right now. We assume, they are part of the graduations. They are part of the. Because we we with the women, we do graduation, we do a speech, we do prizes for the best, business idea.

00:15:36:06 – 00:15:54:09
Speaker 1
So we do several things in order to motivate the women to bring them to speak about their projects and their businesses and their products and services. So, this is also part of the education and many of the charity. So part of that, so and you see it with how much love they are there. So sometimes it’s really beautiful.

00:15:54:09 – 00:16:15:15
Speaker 1
Sometimes they say, you know, I want to be there and I’m going to donate 500th, like, okay, great. So the 500th first prize 500. And then they start to listen to the speeches and they say afterwards, you know, they start sending me like with the telephone, we donate 500. And for the first 1000 for the second one, this is the party and pizza for everybody who participated.

00:16:15:17 – 00:16:26:08
Speaker 1
You know, you see that how how much they care though Switzerland is a wonderful place to to work. Yeah, yeah. We see lots worth and love and, Yeah.

00:16:26:10 – 00:16:40:09
Speaker 2
That’s fantastic. So. But you also have, developed products, there and yes, built a whole line of accessories. When did this start?

00:16:40:11 – 00:17:11:21
Speaker 1
This started in 2009. We started the project at, hospital. Because we had this project of the women entrepreneurs, we realized that one of the things that it’s really devastating for a poor family is when, children or somebody in the family, it’s sick if they have to go to hospital so a poor family can end up in the street if they have to pay for medical treatment and so on, because.

00:17:11:23 – 00:17:33:08
Speaker 1
And in Ecuador, steel medicine is not that good. And, you’re not that well, covered. So, seeing this and seeing that, you know, some, some women say it could have started with a job and doing things and producing things. But if one of the children were sick, not only that, the whole research will go into the illness of these children.

00:17:33:12 – 00:17:53:20
Speaker 1
It’s also that these women would have to sit next to the children, because that’s, what they have to do in Ecuador. Because you don’t have that many nurses working in the in the hospitals, in the public hospitals. So the women would have to sit there day and night means they were using their reserves and they didn’t have the chance to work anymore.

00:17:53:22 – 00:18:29:21
Speaker 1
So what we started there was bringing, materials, needles and, and threats and teaching them how to do simple bag, simple hat, you know, just something that you can do while you are taking care of your child. And, we were surprised because the women were not only extremely skilled. So, you know, they they started, very fast, but they will, you know, they, we will come the next day and they, they will tell you, you know, look, I have a heart ache that these and and they will start selling it already to the nurses or to people in the street.

00:18:29:24 – 00:18:53:08
Speaker 1
Very good. In order to gain some money. And so there was you know many beautiful surprises on the way. But that was one of the surprises with her. Okay. This is not just something to keep them busy. While they were there. But this is also a, possible business. And, and we are making the best out of the time that the women are sitting there with their children.

00:18:53:10 – 00:19:14:22
Speaker 1
So from these very, let’s say, simple bags, simple in the sense that they have no, inside lining, no leather. No. It was just naked. We took a group of these women, I think it was 12 women from the hospital. And, and we invited them to be, to be part of this atelier. Avanzar.

00:19:14:24 – 00:19:35:13
Speaker 1
So once the, the women could leave the hospital and they will come to us and we will start then we started doing the bags in 2009. The initial idea was that they could sell them locally, but then one of the ladies gave me a bag as a present and I brought it here, and I was very happy with my bag.

00:19:35:15 – 00:19:51:05
Speaker 1
And, a friend who lives just next door, she asked me about the bag, and I said, you know, I told her the story, and she said, I won one, and then the next one, and then the next one. And then we thought, okay, this is not only a business where I can or this can become a business for Switzerland as well.

00:19:51:07 – 00:20:10:20
Speaker 1
And then, of course, we start improving the quality, because in Switzerland you have a very high standards and quality. And so we start, you know, really, trying to make. Exactly. So that was at the very, very beginning of the Ateliers of unserer, where we do mainly bags, these beautiful.

00:20:10:22 – 00:20:13:12
Speaker 2
Yes. I noticed that, yeah.

00:20:13:14 – 00:20:21:22
Speaker 1
I know, we also have, necklaces. Well, a few things, but the main things are, handmade bags.

00:20:21:24 – 00:20:45:01
Speaker 2
Wow. That’s fantastic. And I’m sure it’s been also a great learning for your children to see you do this and how you combine the two countries that you are living in and what can come from it. Right. If we have our eyes open and if we are willing to support people in their natural surroundings with their natural needs.

00:20:45:03 – 00:21:10:08
Speaker 2
That’s fantastic. So now you are, but you are also taking the actually avanzar and you also have a number of other brands. And then you do this actually eight days in Switzerland. How do you do them in a year. Because I think it’s very exciting to discover brands that, in a way purposeful, but also just not mainstream.

00:21:10:08 – 00:21:18:12
Speaker 2
And so you know, have beautiful material and beautiful craftsmanship and creativity. I think everybody’s kind of longing for that.

00:21:18:13 – 00:21:41:19
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. At the right moment to do to do this because, I think the more, fast fashion you have, the more thimbles and chains. The other side of that is the more the people realize how beautiful it is some to have something that’s really, handmade, that it’s really made by a person, that by a machine that, it’s a unique piece.

00:21:41:21 – 00:22:04:15
Speaker 1
And all our bags, they come with a with a tag with the the picture of the person who did it. And when the certificate that says how many pieces we have done and how many hours, we try to let people know what it’s all behind our product. But answering to answer your question, when we started with it, I tell you that answer.

00:22:04:15 – 00:22:27:00
Speaker 1
So with our own, social enterprise, one of the reasons to do that was to fundraise because we didn’t, we we wanted to have some kind of independence in that sense, and not to only be dependent on larger foundations giving us money. And we also wanted to keep work so well paid, fair work in Ecuador.

00:22:27:00 – 00:22:39:21
Speaker 1
So it took many of the boxes. But then we realized at the same time that if you do things made by hand, you cannot become huge because made by hand means few pieces.

00:22:39:23 – 00:22:40:20
Speaker 2
Limitation.

00:22:40:20 – 00:23:05:08
Speaker 1
Exactly. Limitation. And we realized that we were not alone in this, that there was all the other brands in, in similar situations, that they were not going to have a, a store in the van. So, and made them thousands of things. And this became an opportunity to create a group, of brands that were in similar situations.

00:23:05:14 – 00:23:27:21
Speaker 1
So this group is knit and steady group. We call or runs three times a year. So, the one event was in April, the second event tomorrow, and the third event is in, in November. So, and we look for those brands that are handmade or made in small batches that are unique. Usually the designer is there.

00:23:27:21 – 00:23:58:14
Speaker 1
So a big event at the event, which is very interesting because you can find out, okay, if I like something, how this something was done where, by whom, how many hours? And so on and on. And this makes a huge difference. I mean, I also, of course, I also go and shopping in Zurich. And I realized the difference between shopping from somebody who’s behind the product, who has done the protocol design the product, or shopping from a saleslady who can be wonderful.

00:23:58:16 – 00:24:23:23
Speaker 1
But still, there’s not this, not this love for the product, for what they are doing, for what they are, selling. So, yes. So we do this event three times a year, two days in a row. We have between 15 and 25 brands coming together. And, and, and as I said, most of them, they are the designers standing there saying hi today to the client.

00:24:24:00 – 00:24:24:09
Speaker 1

00:24:25:04 – 00:24:57:02
Speaker 2
That’s fantastic. So with all that you’ve created over the past 25, 26 years, it’s not only big and very active bridging two countries cultures, doing good. It’s, it’s really purpose driven and so meaningful. So what would you say is your learning out of this? What has been the learning curve from like, you know, look, just couple things to maybe something more eternal.

00:24:57:06 – 00:24:58:15
Speaker 2
Well, internal.

00:24:58:17 – 00:25:01:08
Speaker 1
That’s a that’s a huge question.

00:25:01:10 – 00:25:04:06
Speaker 2
Because I know, I know, I tend to do that. Exactly.

00:25:04:06 – 00:25:34:17
Speaker 1
I could I could stay here for hours. I think, but you know, if I would just, you know, spontaneously say 2 or 3 things, if you have the passion, you will always have the energy. I think that’s one of the most important things, because everything was learned by doing. There was no knowledge in mind. But if you have the passion, you start talking to people, talking to people who have had already done it, talking to beneficiaries, learning in thousands of ways.

00:25:34:19 – 00:26:02:20
Speaker 1
There is also an advantage if you do the learn by doing this, that you are not limited by the people or the organizations who did it before. In a certain way, you start finding your own ways and maybe these creativity, for example. What, what had they been born thinking? Okay. Why not? Why? Why, yeah, we can do these and these and we try and and being a small team, we can always take decisions.

00:26:02:22 – 00:26:26:07
Speaker 1
This is also something, I must say, very important, evaluating what you are doing on time. You know, not waiting too long because it’s on the small team and, and, foundation. We have to make sure that all our resources are well invested, that we make the biggest impact with what we are doing with the with the means that, that donors are giving us.

00:26:26:10 – 00:26:47:10
Speaker 1
So this is a work that we are doing all the time within the team is evaluating the value in talking. Did we do a mistake or didn’t when better than we expected doing changes. So, I would say that’s one of the, the older things that I would say. It has been a very interesting learning process. There’s nothing how do you say that in English?

00:26:47:13 – 00:27:11:17
Speaker 1
It’s nothing that has been carved in stone that you can not change. And it’s not work. Just change things because and after every, let’s say, big change that we have done, I have seen wonderful, things that have happened, from going to not you can not change it to being afraid of change and to take the decision to change it to say, thanks God, we change it.

00:27:11:19 – 00:27:12:17
Speaker 1
No.

00:27:12:19 – 00:27:21:22
Speaker 2
Yes, yes. And for yourself, what would you say is like a learning for you as a person in this.

00:27:21:22 – 00:27:41:06
Speaker 1
As a person, I would say the learning is all women are the same all over. We want to be loved. We want to have the opportunity to love our children, our our, the couples, our friends. And we only meet the chances. We only need to be given the chance.

00:27:41:06 – 00:27:42:05
Speaker 2
Opportunities.

00:27:42:10 – 00:28:04:10
Speaker 1
We’re born with chances. I was a lucky, lucky child. My parents were there for me. They love me. They could send me to school. Not everybody had dad. But those who don’t have it, they want exactly the same thing. Right. And so it’s. Since we all want the same, let’s support each other to achieve the same, same goals.

00:28:04:12 – 00:28:05:05
Speaker 1

00:28:05:07 – 00:28:18:03
Speaker 2
Yes. Well that’s actually a nice note to end this. So tomorrow you have the next two days in Zurich. Yes. How long is that usually. Is that a week or three days.

00:28:18:09 – 00:28:46:20
Speaker 1
It’s actually two days. Two days. It’s two days but it’s full two days. So we are there from early in the morning to, late in the late in the evening to the evening and, yeah, it’s wonderful. Many people from the so-called, Gold Coast days of the Gold Coast, come by. So, and they really take the time to discover, and handpick beautiful products from all around the world.

00:28:46:21 – 00:28:50:19
Speaker 2
Nice. Nice. And when is the next one? In the fall.

00:28:50:20 – 00:29:14:04
Speaker 1
In. Yes, in November. So in November I think 10th and 11th of November. And then it’s going to be I think 25 to 30 brands again from all around the world. Yeah. It’s lovely. I really loved, these two days in contact with the, the visitors and the exhibitors and, and the ladies over there waiting for the orders.

00:29:14:04 – 00:29:16:03
Speaker 1
So it’s like win, win win.

00:29:16:05 – 00:29:33:17
Speaker 2
Yeah. That’s fantastic. Well, congratulations to all this. This is very impressive and very inspiring. Also, Margherita, thank you. Thank you so much for telling and sharing the story. And I wish you good luck for the next two days. Thank you very much. And, yeah, it was lovely to speak to you.

00:29:33:18 – 00:29:37:20
Speaker 1
Thank you very much. Thank you very much for having me here by Chloe.

00:29:37:20 – 00:29:52:00
Speaker 2
Okay. Bye bye. So.

00:29:52:02 – 00:30:40:01
Speaker 2
I love this story so much because it’s so well rounded. It sounds like a really great little machinery where everything works, are tuned and in tune with each other and it’s very authentic. And I could also imagine that it comes from Margherita, because she also says that moments of reflections just addressing will have been become very important to her gratitude, and in a calm she regards, is essential not only for personal well-being, but also for sustaining a life dedicated to serving others.

00:30:40:03 – 00:30:57:17
Speaker 2
Thank you for listening to Shift Happens. Please follow and subscribe to this podcast. It’s an easy hit for you with a huge impact for me. It helps me grow even further and bring you more conversations with women from around the globe.

00:30:57:19 – 00:31:15:22
Speaker 2
Shift happens has been created and is hosted by me, Claudia Mahler editing Andy Boroson, social media Magda Reckendrees. I hope you felt connected and heard by listening to Shift happens.