00:00:02:11 – 00:00:18:12
Milena
I’m in a very good place. I really like this phase. I’m in my 60s now, and I really love this site. It has a lot of advantages.

00:00:18:14 – 00:00:47:08
Claudia
Hello, and welcome back to Sift Happiness. My name is Claudia Mahler, and I’m your host. Its season three finale. The shift happens. Community is growing and growing, and I am so grateful for all the encouraging feedback and for you sharing this podcast with your friends and networks. I find it all enormous and I’m humbled. I love podcasting despite challenges.

00:00:47:10 – 00:01:18:12
Claudia
The other week I was so sick and lost my voice so everything was on hold. In today’s episode, my microphone went on strike unknowingly. But we go with the flow. Make the best of it and I’m thankful to my excellent and skillful editor, Andy Pawson. In today’s episode, I’m in conversation with one of the most renowned female Swiss authors and writers, Milena moser, who actually lives in San Francisco.

00:01:18:14 – 00:01:48:03
Claudia
Milena was my first ever creative writing teacher, and what I will never forget is when I read my first little prompt and shyly explained that I intended to write a short story. She looked at me and said, are you sure this is not the synopsis of a novel? This sentence keeps encouraging me to this day. Also on the shelf behind a students set, a little stuffed animal, a monkey.

00:01:48:05 – 00:02:16:20
Claudia
Milena explained how this monkey in fact represents all the doubts spooking around in all of our heads at any given time, criticizing us, putting us down, etc. it really helped to have this inner critic suddenly sitting there and not letting this voice of doubts interfere with the creative process. Anyway, long, long ago, and my novel is still in the making.

00:02:16:22 – 00:02:45:10
Claudia
Milena will share with us where home is, how she maneuvers life, and how she came to love a tarantula named Sophie. A pivotal moment of realization about life. Milena is one of the most successful authors in the German speaking countries. She has published 24 books and has had a weekly column in Swiss Sunday Paper. There’s a link for many, many years.

00:02:45:12 – 00:03:05:08
Claudia
She lives with her husband, the Mexican born artist Victor Maria Zabala, in San Francisco.

00:03:05:10 – 00:03:36:02
Claudia
Yes. Hello, Milena. Hi. Milena moser. Originally from Switzerland. Yes. Living in San Francisco now? Yes. Thank you so, so very much for your time to speak to me. On shift happens. I remember the monkey very well. Yes, in the back, because, I took my first creative writing class with you. Oh, wow. I don’t know how many years ago, like 14 years ago.

00:03:36:03 – 00:03:37:10
Claudia
Wow. In Arco.

00:03:37:11 – 00:03:39:00
Milena
Oh, yeah. Yeah.

00:03:39:02 – 00:03:41:08
Claudia
Yeah. In, like, the some back room.

00:03:41:09 – 00:03:44:04
Milena
Yeah, yeah, it was a shed. Like. Like this one.

00:03:44:07 – 00:04:08:18
Claudia
Yeah a shed. Yeah. Yes. Yes. So I remember the monkey and glad he’s he’s joining us. Yeah. So, as you know, in shift happens, I speak to women, and we speak about a pivotal moment. Turning point in life. Of course, there are always many. And before we start our conversation, I wanted to ask you a few questions.

00:04:08:20 – 00:04:10:04
Milena
Sure.

00:04:10:05 – 00:04:13:16
Claudia
What is your current state of mind?

00:04:13:18 – 00:04:16:23
Milena
Jetlag.

00:04:17:01 – 00:04:18:06
Claudia
Very familiar, but.

00:04:18:06 – 00:04:32:03
Milena
Then it generally very happy. I’m in a very good place. I really like this phase. I’m in my 60s now, and I really love this site. It has a lot of advantages.

00:04:32:05 – 00:04:36:14
Claudia
Okay. While we’re at it, what’s what’s one of them?

00:04:36:16 – 00:05:00:18
Milena
I think you get used to yourself, and you don’t, You don’t try to conform to other people’s ideas of, you know, there’s just no time and energy left for all that. And so you’re. I’m all right. I should say I don’t want to speak for anyone else, but I’m much more at ease with myself, and I’m much kinder to myself than I used to be.

00:05:00:18 – 00:05:11:18
Milena
As a younger woman. I was always like, do better? Not good enough. You know, why did you do this? Why didn’t you do that? And now I’m just like, you know, I’m just doing my best.

00:05:11:19 – 00:05:14:00
Claudia
Great. I can’t wait.

00:05:14:02 – 00:05:14:15
Milena
Something to.

00:05:14:15 – 00:05:23:12
Claudia
Look. Three more years for me. Yeah, but that’s a good one. How would you describe your idea of perfect happiness?

00:05:23:14 – 00:06:10:15
Milena
For me, happiness is like, It’s not, it’s not a constant. It’s moments. And to me, it’s it’s almost like a a sport or a challenge to find a tiny bit of happiness, even when it looks like there is none, like, you know, I’m, I’m I’ve been with someone for the last ten years who’s very, very, challenged health wise, and to put it mildly, and often we have, like, you know, we spend birthdays and Christmas or whatever in, in the hospital or in the ER, and there’s always, there’s always something to there’s always a little drop of happiness you can squeeze out of the moment.

00:06:10:15 – 00:06:16:19
Milena
And so that’s, it’s almost like a discipline that I’m getting better and better at.

00:06:16:20 – 00:06:25:02
Claudia
Interesting. Which living person do you most admire and why?

00:06:25:04 – 00:06:53:15
Milena
Living person. I would say my friend Katarina Farber, who’s, a writer, she published three books, and she, I’ve learned more from her, not only in terms of writing, but also like how to live life, than from anyone else. Including parents, teachers, anyone. And she’s just very she’s a little bit similar to my husband.

00:06:53:15 – 00:07:18:18
Milena
She has a lot of, you know, she she gets hit hard by life, but she always finds a way to make it work. And she has an, uncontainable joy of life that is really, really inspiring. Plus, she’s the only person I can talk to about my characters as if they were real living people because she does the same.

00:07:18:18 – 00:07:19:13
Milena
So that’s really.

00:07:19:13 – 00:07:28:04
Claudia
Fun. Oh that’s great. Yes. Yeah.

00:07:28:06 – 00:07:36:16
Claudia
So, before I speak to the guests on my podcast, we are in a brief email contact and,

00:07:36:18 – 00:07:37:06
Milena
Sorry.

00:07:37:10 – 00:08:04:01
Claudia
And you shared that. Of course. You know, obviously there are many points in life that have been transformational and a pivotal moment. And of course, I’m super curious about, Sophie. Yeah. So that, of course, I’d never heard before, someone who participated in an arachnophobia workshop. Yeah. So the floor is yours. I love spiders, by the way.

00:08:04:01 – 00:08:08:12
Claudia
And sorry for everyone who’s who is dealing with this, but maybe this is going to be helpful.

00:08:08:14 – 00:08:30:16
Milena
Yeah. We should put a trigger warning. So we’re talking about. Yes, I do. So I was, I had a huge irrational fear of spiders all my life, and to the point that I could not if there was a spider in the corner, I was, like, paralyzed. I couldn’t I was afraid to leave the room because it might jump at me or I don’t know, because I couldn’t even touch the picture of a spider.

00:08:30:17 – 00:08:41:16
Milena
It was completely irrational and limiting. This, you know, traveling other spiders. I’m not going there. So.

00:08:41:18 – 00:08:45:18
Claudia
Everybody had to check the room before and and. Yes. Make sure.

00:08:45:20 – 00:09:06:11
Milena
And you know, with kids, they’re afraid you’re the mother. You’re supposed to take care of things. And they couldn’t. And so so when I was I think 47 probably, I was working for a magazine in Switzerland and I heard about this arachnophobia, workshop at the zoo in Zurich. And they said, I’m going to cover that for the magazine.

00:09:06:13 – 00:09:34:20
Milena
And I was sure it wouldn’t work on me. And so I went to that class and they had like Sophie, the red kneed Mexican tarantula that, it’s pretty big. It’s a pretty big animal, actually. But in a, in a terrarium, in a locked behind a locked door in the next room. And still I couldn’t focus on anything people were saying because I was so aware of there’s a big, huge spider behind that door.

00:09:34:22 – 00:09:56:18
Milena
Four hours later, I had this spider in my hand and I thought she was beautiful, you know? So and that’s I mean, the whole workshop was amazing because I was there was a psychologist, but there was also, a spider expert who was so in love with spiders that he kind of made me see the beauty in those animals.

00:09:56:20 – 00:10:02:20
Milena
For example, did you know that they carry their heart in there? But. No. And and it’s like the.

00:10:02:20 – 00:10:03:17
Claudia
Heart.

00:10:03:19 – 00:10:21:14
Milena
Covers all the essential organs. And then there’s only the skin covering the heart, so they’re completely unprotected. I thought that was so poetic. So, anyway, I was doing all the exercises and thinking like, oh, yeah, yeah, I know what he’s doing. You know, I’ve been to therapy. I know what he’s doing. This is not going to work.

00:10:21:16 – 00:10:43:11
Milena
But it did. And it for me, it changed everything because that was one thing I knew about myself, for sure. I am deathly afraid of spiders. I have a spider in my hand, and I think it’s beautiful. The way she moves her legs and the little hairs on her legs and everything that I hated before suddenly I thought was beautiful.

00:10:43:11 – 00:11:11:05
Milena
So if that can change, anything can change. And for me, that was the beginning. I went through a big upheaval in my, like late 40s, early 50s. Like. Yeah, like maybe the two years before my 50th birthday, I, I had horrible divorce. I, you know, I was very miserable. I ended up leaving my country, I moved to Santa Fe, and I fell in love with someone who lives in San Francisco.

00:11:11:05 – 00:11:25:08
Milena
And it just, you know, my life was kind of a. And to me, it started with Sophie. Because my next thought was if that is possible, what else is possible?

00:11:25:09 – 00:11:31:00
Claudia
It’s like it’s like everything is, is turned open and can flow.

00:11:31:02 – 00:11:44:18
Milena
Yeah, yeah. And we all have beliefs about ourselves and it’s nice to kind of know yourself and be comfortable with yourself. But there’s you know, it can be limiting like, oh, I’m.

00:11:44:20 – 00:12:07:13
Claudia
It can be limiting. But then I also have to think that Sophie has something to do with the monkey, because I remember when you, said in the creative writing class, we all have the monkey in us, these monkey voices that kind of torment us. And then they tell us that this is not a sentence, this is not a story, and so on and so forth, but just to continue and stick to it and be okay.

00:12:07:14 – 00:12:23:00
Claudia
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting. And you said that you then went to America, but I read in your biography that you had spent already some time, yes, in the U.S when your kids were younger. Yeah.

00:12:23:02 – 00:12:41:22
Milena
With my second husband, we spent eight years in San Francisco between 98 and 2006. And it was kind of on a whim. And it was meant, you know, we were meant to stay six months or a year, and then we just ended up staying and staying and staying. And I to be honest, I could have stayed forever.

00:12:41:22 – 00:12:54:21
Milena
But then, you know, we went back and then, you know, other things happened. But I always had this, this longing to come back here. And so it took me a while, but I, I did it.

00:12:54:23 – 00:12:59:11
Claudia
You did it. And that was always in the back of your head. Yeah. That you wanted to go back to the West.

00:12:59:11 – 00:13:22:16
Milena
Coast, and I would come back every year, like once or twice a year. And my kids still had friends here. And, you know, we kind of kept it. It stayed part of our identity in a way. And, and then the kids more and more settled in Switzerland, and I still I always had like a part of myself that felt like I belong here.

00:13:22:18 – 00:13:24:06
Milena

00:13:24:08 – 00:13:38:20
Claudia
And Santa Fe. Yeah. That’s a very creative. It’s a place that draws a lot of creative people together. Was that a very special experience or was it more of a landing point and, and sort of significant.

00:13:38:22 – 00:14:00:04
Milena
It was both I mean at the moment when it happened, there was just a whole and, San Francisco is a very, very expensive place. I think it’s one of the most expensive places in the world. And so once you leave, it’s it’s really hard to come back here. And so it was, for me a way to suddenly I realized, well, it doesn’t have to be San Francisco.

00:14:00:04 – 00:14:36:19
Milena
You can go somewhere else. And it was, it’s also a perfect place for, there’s a there were a lot of women like me. Middle aged, divorced, heartbroken. Northern European because Santa Fe is so it’s what we Europeans imagined the Wild West to be. It’s karma and very courageous girl. It’s all our fantasies come true. They’re, you know, and, there’s also a lot of preying on these women that I realized pretty quickly that, there’s a lot of it’s a very welcoming, but also very harsh place.

00:14:36:21 – 00:14:55:18
Milena
It’s really both it’s it’s a lot of, contradictions. And I was very lucky to have one great friend there, Dolores was been there forever, and who helped me a lot to figure out my way. And she also protected me from all kinds of bad guys. So not this one, not this one, not this one.

00:14:55:20 – 00:14:58:13
Claudia
Very good. That’s helpful.

00:14:58:15 – 00:15:17:08
Milena
And so it was a wonderful time. And it’s funny because someone said to me in the beginning, it’s a place where people come to put themselves back together, and that’s what they need. And it’s really funny that I fell in love with someone who lives in San Francisco and basically got me back to San Francisco, where I thought I had no place anymore.

00:15:17:08 – 00:15:36:09
Milena
So, you know, life is just. Yeah, interesting. But you really have to, you know, a lot of people said, well, you decided on Santa Fe doesn’t matter if you fall in love, you can’t change your plans. But I always kind of go with the flow. I kind of trust that life will take me to a good place.

00:15:36:09 – 00:16:00:08
Claudia
Yeah, it’s. I mean, that’s what my intuition was like. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, obviously the circle closed there and and you were on the way you were supposed to be. Yeah. And I think that, Yeah, in our first life, I think everywhere, whether in the US, in Europe, it’s, you know, we used to plan and then it’s this step and then it’s this step and then the end is going with the sea.

00:16:00:08 – 00:16:21:19
Claudia
Yeah. Who said that? This famous quote about the river. You never step twice into the same river. Because you also. Yeah. Because the river is always. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because we always changing. Yeah. But yeah. So now you’re in San Francisco and you’ve been living there for ten, 12 years now?

00:16:22:01 – 00:16:44:13
Milena
No, I left Switzerland again in 2015. So that’s nine years ago. And then I think I left Santa Fe in early 2019, probably. So it’s five years full time in San Francisco. And before I was kind of going back and forth, I wasn’t ready to give up on it. But yeah, it just all kind of blew up in my face.

00:16:44:15 – 00:16:48:19
Milena
And I. But it’s all good. It’s all good.

00:16:48:21 – 00:17:00:20
Claudia
So you lived on both sides, as you just said. You you have jetlag, which from Switzerland to San Francisco, it’s even longer, right. It’s nine hours. Different.

00:17:00:20 – 00:17:04:11
Milena
11. Oh, the time difference. Yeah. No, the time difference.

00:17:04:11 – 00:17:14:10
Claudia
Yeah. So I’ve been reading your columns in Switzerland. The newspaper lake.

00:17:14:12 – 00:17:15:00
Milena
Front that.

00:17:15:01 – 00:17:18:03
Claudia
They launched. Sorry, sorry. It’s a distinction. Yes. I’m sorry.

00:17:18:08 – 00:17:19:03
Milena
Yes.

00:17:19:05 – 00:17:21:13
Claudia
There’s, tax more respectable.

00:17:21:15 – 00:17:23:09
Milena
Yes.

00:17:23:11 – 00:17:47:10
Claudia
No, absolutely. And I’m sorry. And, And I love it because it’s really like these very pointed vignettes. Also about this life in two different worlds. Yeah. And I live like that as well. So of course, I’m always very interested in it. So, I had wondered about, of course, the slide, how this reflects into your writing.

00:17:47:12 – 00:18:05:21
Claudia
Not so much story wise, because of course, when there’s so much input and inspiration from it. But really technically also in your writing, I mean, are you tempted also to write in English or is really German? Is this like your home? Yeah, your writing home. And that will never change. In a way, yes.

00:18:05:23 – 00:18:37:16
Milena
In a way, it’s the closest I. Oh, look, I just saw a spider. In a way it’s the it’s the closest I come to this sense of Heimat. Of of home is, is when I’m writing. And as a Swiss German writer, I. German is not my first language. But we adopted so early, like in kindergarten, our first day of school, that it becomes like it’s your language but not your language.

00:18:37:16 – 00:18:57:10
Milena
So it’s already a second language in a way. And so it’s like I’m used to not, for example, not being able to just write down a conversation I hear in public transportation and just take it like the way I heard it, I always have to translate it. And so that’s just interesting.

00:18:57:10 – 00:18:59:11
Claudia
Yeah. Of course.

00:18:59:13 – 00:19:22:13
Milena
Innate, you know, by now it’s like and then, I don’t know, I just, I never dream in English. I don’t think in English. And people say the way you count your money or, you know, like that’s why I do. Yes. Other, you know, that’s, that’s your language. Or if you react to a small like a puppy or a baby, if you say, oh my God, how cute or.

00:19:22:15 – 00:19:41:05
Milena
Yeah, yeah, it’s like that’s that’s very languages. And so that’s very clear for me. Still, I’m still German. Yeah, I did write some stuff in English when people ask me to. And it’s not that I can do it, but it never feels. It feels as mine as when I write.

00:19:41:07 – 00:19:46:22
Claudia
Well. And also, you’ve been writing for so many years. What’s like 30 years? 40 years?

00:19:47:00 – 00:19:53:21
Milena
It’s been 40 years since I sent out my first manuscript when I was 21 years old. Yeah.

00:19:53:23 – 00:20:07:14
Claudia
And I read in your bio that it took six years. Yeah. Of rejections, six letters. Yeah. Two letters years to finally get your first book published. Yeah. Unbelievable.

00:20:07:16 – 00:20:45:01
Milena
Yeah. I’m working now on a book about writing. And, it’s kind of half memoir, half workshop in a, in a book, in a book. And I’m thinking about a lot of things, like a lot of memories come back up and I’ve been thinking about that time. It was, it was hard and I was very close to giving up, but I never did y I don’t know, it’s just there was no I never had that, you know, kind of self-esteem where I felt like, well, I know that I’m good and, you know, the world will catch up with me.

00:20:45:01 – 00:20:47:12
Milena
It was just like, there’s nothing else I want to do.

00:20:47:14 – 00:20:49:10
Claudia
So it has to one day.

00:20:49:10 – 00:21:11:16
Milena
It has to work out somehow. Yeah, yeah. And then it did kind of. Well, it never did because my first three books were published by friends, so I never found a publisher until I was already out there successful. And then of course, they came and, well, wanted to buy me, like a football player or something. Yeah.

00:21:11:18 – 00:21:25:00
Claudia
So I was thinking about, what for you maybe has been one of the most important advices for writing, your writing process.

00:21:25:02 – 00:21:58:12
Milena
You know, I can tell you, it’s just something that was always inside me. I read a memoir lately. Not long ago. It was, The Many Lives of Mama. Something and forget the other. It’s a memoir about, somebody who was addicted to heroin, and it’s the whole story. But it starts with my first addiction were books, and then she writes about how, you know, she kind of escaped the whatever measurability of her childhood was in books.

00:21:58:12 – 00:22:17:14
Milena
And that was exactly what I was doing. That was when I was very little reading. And then very soon writing and reading was always kind of almost the same thing. And it was my, my escape. And I, you know, maybe I’m just lucky that I never switched to heroin, but it’s.

00:22:17:16 – 00:22:19:10
Claudia
Just to say that it.

00:22:19:10 – 00:22:37:17
Milena
Was like this. There was always this whole so that I didn’t need I didn’t need advice. I didn’t need instruction or anything. It was always like, this is, you know, if you give me any choice in the world, this is where I want to go.

00:22:37:19 – 00:22:49:03
Claudia
And so it’s of course very, admirable. But also, you know, one can get very envious if someone has such a clear vision of, of where to go.

00:22:49:05 – 00:22:57:06
Milena
But that don’t forget that it was an escape. So if, if you’re, if you’re a happy child, you don’t need to escape so much.

00:22:57:08 – 00:23:05:19
Claudia
Yeah. So of course, I mean, I can’t say anything to that, but then again, the escape in video, also into a into your own way.

00:23:05:21 – 00:23:24:23
Milena
Yeah, yeah. But it’s true. I never like both my kids were more like, you know, I don’t quite know what to do. And I’m interested in this and in that. And I just kind of stared at them like, it made me realize how really lucky it is to just know, you know, this one thing. But if that one thing doesn’t work out, then you’re a little bit,

00:23:25:01 – 00:23:26:16
Milena
Yeah.

00:23:26:18 – 00:23:29:15
Claudia
Yeah, but it did. But yeah, it did.

00:23:29:16 – 00:23:30:20
Milena
Yes, it did.

00:23:30:22 – 00:23:43:06
Claudia
And, you share your knowledge and practice of writing with students. Yeah. And people who are trying it out. What’s, fascinating for you in that process?

00:23:43:08 – 00:24:10:08
Milena
How much we have in common, even if we are in completely different places in our lives, if we are completely different personalities, completely different writing projects, completely different writing styles. But there’s something that we have in common. And the more people I work with and with the online classes that I started doing during the pandemic, I have like one on one zooms with each participant.

00:24:10:09 – 00:24:24:06
Milena
I have much more time with each person than in an analog course, and it just always fascinates me how we’re all, you know, when we write, we there’s something that.

00:24:24:08 – 00:24:25:19
Claudia
Connects,

00:24:25:21 – 00:25:00:20
Milena
Connect us and that that we have in common. And it doesn’t matter. I the only advantage I have is my experience, but I have the exact same doubts and comments monkey comments in my mind. Even after I think I published 24 books by now. So yeah, but it’s not. The monkeys don’t care that they’re not impressed. Yeah, so, we that’s something really humbling and and also touching that because writers are writing is a is a lonely art.

00:25:00:20 – 00:25:21:06
Milena
It’s not like you’re in a band or you’re in a theater troupe or something. You’re not, you know, you’re but with along with your thoughts and your monkeys and all that and when we talk to each other, we realize, oh, we’re all the same, really. So that’s, that’s my favorite part.

00:25:21:08 – 00:25:27:09
Claudia
And is it, is it more women, more men that participate in classes as you know,

00:25:27:11 – 00:25:59:15
Milena
With mean more women, and online more men and also more younger people, younger men, I think, you know, I did an apprenticeship in a bookstore, 700 years ago. And even then it was like men get published more, get more funding from cultural institutions, sell more books, get more awards. But women are the ones buying the books, reading the books.

00:25:59:18 – 00:26:25:05
Milena
So I always get a little like sometimes I do a reading and then the, librarian or whatever it says, like, it’s only women. And I’m like, what do you mean only? What do you mean only? You’re a woman. I’m a woman. What? What do you mean, only so. But, I hear of I mean, I was always surrounded by men, and I grew up with men that are avid readers.

00:26:25:07 – 00:26:52:23
Milena
So it was kind of weird to me to realize that a lot of men don’t read. They think like, it’s not fiction, you know, they think like, why should I read fiction? And so, I don’t know, there’s no gain in it. There’s no, you know, what can I learn? I don’t know. And so there’s a whole world where people don’t read, but I don’t live in that world, so it doesn’t it really doesn’t really affect me so much.

00:26:53:01 – 00:27:06:03
Claudia
And looking back over your career, do you think it has changed that women have gained more gravitas in the whole publishing world and writing world or, really? No.

00:27:06:05 – 00:27:31:02
Milena
No, no. No, it’s I still hear from women. No, this is still the same. It’s, you know, there was a time where, you know, there was this whole, women’s books shelves in the, bookstores, but that’s discriminating. That’s not. That’s not again, that’s like. Oh, well, here we have literature, and here we have women’s books.

00:27:31:04 – 00:27:57:16
Milena
And, you know, someone like, paid the stone doesn’t end up in men’s literature and ends up in literature. So and I still hear from young female writers that they have the same boyfriend. Oh my God, still. But we have to say, Switzerland is a very, very, very conservative country. And, a little behind the times. It’s taking care of your kids while you’re doing you’re doing readings.

00:27:57:16 – 00:28:00:07
Milena
Didn’t you just have a baby? But.

00:28:00:07 – 00:28:02:05
Claudia
It’s still being asked.

00:28:02:07 – 00:28:31:13
Milena
Oh, still. I’m sorry. Yes. I don’t think my table. I just heard that from a writer who had a baby that, you know, she was trying to get a reading to organize readings for new books and people telling. But you just said a baby. Yes. I’m still a writer. And, you know, the, you know, your physical appearance being a factor in how you’re perceived.

00:28:31:15 – 00:28:47:07
Milena
That hasn’t changed and hasn’t changed. And if you look at who gets awards, who gets, published, who gets reviews, who gets promoted, it’s definitely leads to.

00:28:47:09 – 00:28:52:00
Claudia
More inequality than, oh, what a pity. Yeah, yeah.

00:28:52:00 – 00:28:58:11
Milena
But, you know, it’s not the end of the world yet. We, you know, maybe in 100 years from now, it will be different.

00:28:58:13 – 00:29:00:11
Claudia
Yes. We’re working baby. Nobody will care.

00:29:00:11 – 00:29:11:10
Milena
That would be my dream, that it just wouldn’t matter. Yeah. If you’re a man, woman, non-binary, whatever. You just. It’s a book, I like it. I don’t like it.

00:29:11:12 – 00:29:11:20
Claudia
Yeah.

00:29:11:22 – 00:29:12:11
Milena
That’s all that.

00:29:12:11 – 00:29:33:11
Claudia
Counts in a way. In books it could be quite an easy. Yeah. Quite easy to do because it’s about the story. Yeah. Yeah yeah. You know you’ll read. We’ll see. Well you said that your next book because I wanted to ask you what’s next. That’s what I usually do at this point. And this is the conversation.

00:29:33:13 – 00:29:40:11
Claudia
So you’re working on one next book. Do you already have an idea for the one after that in mind?

00:29:40:13 – 00:30:02:18
Milena
Yes, actually the one after that was the one before that. I was working on a novel that I started about maybe, I don’t know, more than a year ago, a novel that is kind of set in San Francisco and, during this summer of love time in the late 60s. And I was working on that. And every year in November, I participated in National Novel Writing Month.

00:30:02:18 – 00:30:23:17
Milena
That’s just, I’ve been doing that for almost 20 years, and I never quite made the work word count, but I just love the energy of it. So I was doing that last year, and I was in the middle of a book tour with my last novel, and it was I was kind of overwhelmed, and suddenly I had all these childhood memories coming up instead of scenes from my novel.

00:30:23:17 – 00:30:47:11
Milena
And I thought, like, well, whatever. I mean, I don’t my writing practice is not to. I just take whatever comes on the page and then I’ll figure it out later. So for a month, I wrote about my childhood, and then I put it away and went back to my novel. And then after a while, I realized, wait a minute, all these memories have to do with writing.

00:30:47:13 – 00:31:07:12
Milena
So I thought, maybe it’s time to put all this stuff I know about writing. And I’ve been doing these workshops for over 20 years. I’ve been a writer for ever, have been published writer for 36 years. I have a love to to share it. Yeah. So why not try to put it.

00:31:07:14 – 00:31:08:18
Claudia
Combine that in.

00:31:08:20 – 00:31:31:15
Milena
Shape and structure. So I pulled out those memories and I showed them to my agent and my, editor and publisher just now, actually. And they were like, yeah, that’s great. Do that first. And so I’m putting the novel to the side, but I, I basically have two months to finish the book about writing and so it’s going to come out next spring.

00:31:31:16 – 00:31:52:21
Milena
And, you know, the deadline is end of October, so end of October, I’ll go back to the novel. And I think this little break will have, might have been good for it. Because, this, you know, a lot of it has been, you know, it turned out not to be the way I thought it would be.

00:31:52:22 – 00:32:11:20
Milena
Making sure that my main character didn’t like that time that I’m so obsessed with. I’m so obsessed with the late 60s, and I wish I could have been alive there. And then I have this character who’s been through it and tells me it wasn’t that much fun. And I’m like, what? What are you telling them?

00:32:12:00 – 00:32:14:10
Claudia
So it’s good you had a little paper in between?

00:32:14:12 – 00:32:24:14
Milena
Yes, yes. So now I’m thinking of something else and I, you know, I’ll go back to her. When? When I’m ready. Yeah. Very good. I know it sounds a bit weird, but.

00:32:24:18 – 00:32:42:19
Claudia
No, no, I actually I like it, I mean, to to as you just said, you go with what comes up. Yeah. You know what presents itself to you. Yeah. And that is not a bad practice. Yeah. Or anything. And I guess you. Yeah. Instead of saying no, saying yes, inviting it in. Yeah yeah yeah.

00:32:42:20 – 00:33:06:11
Milena
Or planning. That’s something I know. I mean I used to make plans but it never, you know, life never kind of stuck to my plan. So. And an American friend once said to me, your life seems to be a lot about serendipity. And I was like, dippity. I had to look it up, and it’s like, there’s nothing the exact German translation, but it’s a word I just came to love.

00:33:06:11 – 00:33:28:00
Milena
And yes, that’s it. Serendipity. And I think if if I’m good at something, it’s kind of jumping on the train when it passes through. It’s like, you know, I can take those signs and turns in the road and say, okay, I’ll go there. Yeah, if you want me to go there, I’ll do that. And it always it’s a great it’s a great.

00:33:28:00 – 00:33:28:13
Milena
Right?

00:33:28:15 – 00:33:45:12
Claudia
Yeah. It’s fascinating actually. I’m doing these alongs in New York and Zurich and Brooklyn for women and, serendipity has been one topic, and. Oh, wow. And we talked about it and we called it in German. Take look like it so far.

00:33:45:14 – 00:33:46:20
Milena
It looks like it’s about.

00:33:46:20 – 00:33:54:17
Claudia
Is it really, you know, chance and how did we get there and that you can almost coach not cultivated but practice.

00:33:54:19 – 00:33:55:05
Milena
Yeah.

00:33:55:05 – 00:34:02:15
Claudia
That serendipity happens to you and you can you can see it and follow it. Yeah. You have a good reason.

00:34:02:15 – 00:34:24:07
Milena
You have to recognize it. And then you have to because often it’s not like, you know, I had this plan when I moved to Santa Fe and I, I was completely worn out and overworked with things that I loved doing it. That all had to do with writing. It was all fascinating, great assignments, everything. It was just too much of a good thing.

00:34:24:09 – 00:34:54:20
Milena
So I thought I moved to Santa Fe. I live a very frugal life in my very tiny house. I give away all my possessions. I focus only on novels. I not doing columns, workshops, all that stuff anymore. And I will never look at another man again. I will just focus on my writing because I’m done with all that stuff, and then I fall in love with someone who lives 2000km away, who is very sick, who, you know, turns my life upside down.

00:34:54:22 – 00:35:20:06
Milena
And, you know, I’m flying back and forth. I’m spending all my savings. I’m losing the house. I’m like. And you know, sane people would say, like, Molina, stick to the plan. Yeah, stick to the plan. But it’s been the happiest time of my life. It’s, I’m so grateful. And I’m learning so much in this situation that for a lot of people, would be like a red flag, red flag, red flag.

00:35:20:06 – 00:35:29:16
Milena
But other people say, like, well, you lost your house. That’s terrible. But it’s, you know, it’s a house. Yeah, it’s it’s a human being. It’s like.

00:35:29:18 – 00:35:31:12
Claudia
You know. Exactly. Yeah.

00:35:31:14 – 00:35:51:19
Milena
Why even my talk about him. But I think that’s also a Swiss thing is that maybe it’s a human thing, but I see more in Switzerland that we are so afraid of failing or not even failing, but not succeeding with something that, you know, people don’t try to.

00:35:51:21 – 00:36:03:17
Claudia
Yeah. I mean, predictable bility is often seen as the solution to stability and and security and all this. Yeah, yeah. And life just doesn’t go like that. No, it just doesn’t.

00:36:03:19 – 00:36:17:07
Milena
No no no no life doesn’t care. And health doesn’t care. Like you can be the healthiest person in the world, and you can have health insurance and money and everything, and you can still, you know, get hit by disaster.

00:36:17:07 – 00:36:19:07
Claudia
Yeah. Or be unhappy.

00:36:19:09 – 00:36:20:04
Milena
Or be unhappy.

00:36:20:04 – 00:36:29:06
Claudia
Yeah. Not really understanding. Yeah. So, if you need to relax, what do you do?

00:36:29:08 – 00:36:50:09
Milena
I read that that’s one of the greatest things I do that everybody envies me more than anything in my life is, four days a year. I go and rent a little cabin with a friend, and we just read for four days, and we barely talk to each other, except for. Are you hungry? Do you want me to cook some pasta?

00:36:50:09 – 00:37:12:05
Milena
Okay. Or, you know, do you want a glass of wine? Okay. But otherwise we just learned how to read, and it’s. It’s the best. It’s the best vacation you can have. And, it makes me sad that so many people are like, oh, my God, that sounds like a dream. I wish I could do that, and I, everybody should have a reading friend.

00:37:12:07 – 00:37:13:18
Milena

00:37:13:20 – 00:37:15:22
Claudia
Yeah. Good reminder.

00:37:16:00 – 00:37:17:05
Milena
Yeah.

00:37:17:07 – 00:37:20:09
Claudia
And to energize yourself.

00:37:20:11 – 00:37:46:21
Milena
Take a cold shower. Yeah. I don’t know. It’s, I could say quadruple espresso but yeah I don’t know I don’t, I guess I need to get too exhausted or to stressed out or you know, it’s like the relaxing and the energizing is all can all happen in the same hour. Organically.

00:37:46:23 – 00:37:49:09
Claudia
Well I thank you.

00:37:49:11 – 00:37:53:10
Milena
Wow. That went so fast.

00:37:53:12 – 00:38:18:11
Claudia
Yes it did it did it really did. Well it’s I’m listening to not super many podcasts but a number of podcasts. And I always like this time between 30 minutes. 45 minutes. Yeah. And, I don’t know, it’s just. No, it’s three way and I think it can be, Yeah. Please recommend content. And I think, yeah, that’s what we had.

00:38:18:13 – 00:38:30:14
Claudia
So, Yes. Thank you so much for your time and for sharing this absolute little insight. And, has Sophie made it into one of your books?

00:38:30:16 – 00:38:54:07
Milena
No. But, I had written about her and I might I might put her in the book about writing. Maybe not. I’m not sure yet, but she’s been a symbol. And that goes when I’m in Zurich, you know, I used to not look at that whole room and now I go say hi. I don’t know if it’s still the same spider, maybe not.

00:38:54:07 – 00:38:55:23
Milena
But

00:38:56:01 – 00:39:03:23
Claudia
That’s great. That’s amazing. So you are starting in the day over in San Francisco? Yes. Yeah. I hope it will be a good one.

00:39:03:23 – 00:39:06:03
Milena
I’m sure it will be. Thank you so much.

00:39:06:03 – 00:39:08:01
Claudia
For the, Thank you. I’m really not. But I.

00:39:08:03 – 00:39:21:11
Milena
Like that.

00:39:21:13 – 00:39:52:09
Claudia
This conversation clearly could have gone on for hours. What an insightful and strong woman. Milena moser is. And I personally just love her voice. Always have. As she says, the 60s must be an incredible time and a woman’s life. I am curious, we have learned that the zoo in Zurich has the best arachnophobia program. So for all who are suffering, there is true hope.

00:39:52:11 – 00:40:21:19
Claudia
It’s such an interesting metaphor that if you can overcome a huge fear, life actually will become more manageable. With this last episode in 2024, I am wishing you Happy holidays and a peaceful time with your loved ones. We’ll hear each other in the new year. Season four launches in February 2025, with exciting new guests and some other perks and novelties.

00:40:21:23 – 00:40:33:18
Claudia
Stay tuned! I hope you continue to feel heard.

00:40:33:20 – 00:40:58:12
Claudia
Shift happens has been created and is hosted by me, Claudia Mahler editing Andy Boroson Social Media. Magda Reckendrees. I hope you felt connected and heard by listening to Shift Happens and please leave a review and a rating wherever you listen to podcasts.