Anna Believantseva: Leading a Start Up in Times of War

00:00:05:23 – 00:00:34:14
Claudia
Hello and welcome. This is season two of my podcast Shift Happens. My name is Claudia Mahler. I am your host and invite you to celebrate women’s voices and stories. With this podcast, I am creating a space for women to share a pivotal moment and turning point in their life. My guest today is the Ukrainian tech entrepreneur, co-founder and CEO of Aspar Bionics.

00:00:34:16 – 00:01:10:06
Claudia
Anna Believantseva. Her company started up shortly before war broke out in Ukraine in February 2022, with most of her team engineers, contractors and also equipment being in Kiev. Despite the dangerous situation of this war, employees not being ready to leave their life behind and borders closing, she decided to keep the company’s headquarters in the Ukraine, and has since moved the administrative side of the business to New York City and Berlin.

00:01:10:08 – 00:01:52:09
Claudia
Esper bionics famous product is not only the very first AI powered prosthetic hand that gets smarter over time. Through its 24 wearable sensors, it is also the very first prosthetic hand that does not look like the Terminator, but has been developed with the female anatomy in mind. It’s a beautiful, refined and elegant looking electronic hand, and Anna shares with us how the very first test person, a young woman that was born without her left hand, discovered the world and its functionality with two hands.

00:01:52:11 – 00:02:32:06
Claudia
To witness this experience infused Anna and all of her team members with hope and keeps to empower them to continue their successful work under, for us, unimaginable conditions during war time. Anna is one of the leading forces for advocating for women in tech and in the hardware tech sectors. With just 29, she was on the Forbes 30 under 30 list and the Esper Bionic prosthetic hand made it on the cover of time magazine in 2022 as one of the year’s best 200 leading innovations.

00:02:32:08 – 00:02:57:10
Claudia
Please listen carefully to this conversation, which is a moving testimony of resilience, hope, innovation and a clear vision for the future.

00:02:57:12 – 00:03:07:01
Claudia
So here we are. Welcome, Anna. Believe in Savva. Is that correct? Yes. Please say your name correctly.

00:03:07:03 – 00:03:08:18
Anna
and I believe. Answer.

00:03:08:20 – 00:03:37:18
Claudia
Okay. I’m so. That must happen to you a lot. And please forgive me. I am really, really thrilled that it worked out for you to carve out some time to speak with me and be in conversation for shift happens. I just approached you in January in Davos after a panel that you spoke on for The Female Quotient on Ukrainian women, founders, female founders, investments and so on and so forth.

00:03:37:19 – 00:03:42:03
Claudia
And I was just smitten by your story. So thank you so much for being here.

00:03:42:05 – 00:03:51:00
Anna
Thanks a lot for inviting me. And I would love to have a conversation with you and share my my story if you’re a listener. Great.

00:03:51:02 – 00:04:19:16
Claudia
So, Anna, you are originally from Ukraine. You are the founder of Esper Bionics and CEO of Esper Bionics. And you will tell us later a little bit more about this startup and this amazing impact that you have on the life of so many. Where are you located at the moment? Because you are originally from Ukraine and your offices are in Kiev, New York and Berlin, right?

00:04:19:18 – 00:04:43:13
Anna
yes. Right now, I am in New York. we have headquarter here. So I spend at least, six, eight month here in New York. but also, I try to visit our office in Kiev a couple of times per year. And also sometimes I visit our office in Berlin, but usually, here in New York.

00:04:43:15 – 00:04:55:15
Claudia
And if I may ask you, when you travel to Kiev, is this like a normal procedure? Is this always paired with certain amount of anxiety? I mean, how do you. I find it unimaginable?

00:04:55:17 – 00:05:24:03
Anna
Yes. It’s like, for me, it’s like coming home. So it’s always, very pleasant of course, it’s not easier right now because, we don’t have direct flights. Our sky is closed for us to be alone. flights. That’s why I need to fly to Warsaw, for example, and then take a bus. And in general, it takes about 20 hours to get from New York to Ukraine, and it’s pretty exhausted.

00:05:24:05 – 00:05:48:20
Anna
but when I am, in Kiev, it’s also the best emotions that I can get because, the majority of our team, if there a lot of our users, are there and my friends family also located there. So I just spend time with them talking and sharing some new ideas, and they empowering me with so great emotions.

00:05:48:20 – 00:06:10:12
Anna
And I know how hard time for them living in, in the country with the war all the time. It’s not like a life for me here abroad and it’s really people with so strong spirit. And I really adore all of them, and they motivate me to do my best here in when I’m all the way safe here and I have lives.

00:06:10:12 – 00:06:20:19
Anna
I have energy all the time I have ever seen what I need. So was this trip to Ukraine really motivates me to do my best all the time?

00:06:20:21 – 00:06:36:20
Claudia
Yeah, well that’s wonderful. So usually before I start my conversation about a pivotal moment and a turning point in life, I have a few questions. What is your idea of perfect happiness?

00:06:36:22 – 00:07:05:10
Anna
I think it’s a combination of some things. for sure. for me, happiness is about the people in my life, my family, my friends and my teammates. The course, people surrounded, you they are very important. And they like the majority time you spent with them. it’s very crucial to be surrounded by the right people and the people who can make you happy.

00:07:05:15 – 00:07:32:20
Anna
So, I would like to have happy family surrounded by very friends. to whom I can trust. And also have team who can support me, with which I can share my idea. So it’s all people and also some, I think the feelings that I’m doing the ride by myself. So I, I’m doing the work, which brings me right emotions.

00:07:32:20 – 00:08:03:16
Anna
Some impact to my life and to other people’s life is also very crucial. And, also, I think this feeling that you are calm and you are just full of this happiness in every thing you are doing. So you are not worried about everything that you. You can find this calmness and acceptance to everything. What happens. And it’s very important to find this, this feeling inside to you.

00:08:03:22 – 00:08:10:22
Anna
And I think it’s also like the combination of those three factors will make me happy.

00:08:11:00 – 00:08:16:16
Claudia
Well said. Beautiful. What do you most value in your friends.

00:08:16:18 – 00:08:39:05
Anna
I think that they are all the way with me when I the most need them. It’s the most crucial things. for me I can share a very happy moments to them, but also I can share very sad moments, with them. What is the most important things? Because when everything is good, you are surrounded by a lot of people.

00:08:39:07 – 00:09:01:16
Anna
You can go everywhere. You. You are happy. You are, very in good mood. Everything is good. But when something happened and you need to get the support in this moment, it’s very crucial to have some people who can cover your back. And you can literally feel this. They can be not physically present near you, but also you can call or you can text.

00:09:01:16 – 00:09:09:02
Anna
And it’s like mutual support in anything you can need. And this is the most valuable thing for me.

00:09:09:04 – 00:09:15:19
Claudia
Yeah yeah I agree. What is your most treasured possession.

00:09:15:21 – 00:09:20:07
Anna
can you explain what you mean about treasured possession.

00:09:20:09 – 00:09:43:08
Claudia
So a possession can be something materialistic and it can also be something in materialistic. Yeah. So possession can also be of course freedom or it can be, I don’t know, a beautiful piece of furniture or jewelry or a little painting you inherited from a relative or, you know, just something that is dear to you. It’s different for everybody.

00:09:43:08 – 00:09:48:02
Claudia
Is it is it materialistic or is it more, an emotion?

00:09:48:04 – 00:10:22:03
Anna
I think for me if self acceptance. so it’s very crucial for me because I’m the person, who is all the way not satisfied with something and being myself with some people, with some efforts they are doing. I also think that we can do better, we can do faster, we can improve ourself over time. So, this self-acceptance, I think, sometime I will go to this point, I will be there and then it’s will be the most important thing for me.

00:10:22:03 – 00:10:46:23
Anna
But I need to work on this. I have everything to be able to achieve this on the future. And I think, I will be I will be happy. When I can say someone that. Okay, I am very self-confidence. I am satisfied with everything I achieved. I am satisfied of where I am right now, and my life is great.

00:10:46:23 – 00:10:51:04
Anna
And I’m doing great today. Yeah. Yes.

00:10:51:06 – 00:10:55:05
Claudia
What is your greatest fear?

00:10:55:07 – 00:11:24:12
Anna
right now. So I have some mixed feeling right now because, like, at the Ukrainian, I have a lot of feelings. related to war and the greatest fear that this war will continue for, here. And it will be impossible to build life in my country, in Ukraine, for me, for my family, for my colleagues, for my friends and very parents.

00:11:24:14 – 00:11:43:07
Anna
and it’s the most fear that it will take time to overcome this war. and like my personal fear, I think, London, I think I am scared to be lonely. so, yeah, if my personal I am, I am very.

00:11:43:09 – 00:11:43:15
Claudia

00:11:43:18 – 00:12:00:04
Anna
I am always surrounded. Yeah. By people. And I really appreciate to be in the company of some great friends or family. So I don’t want to be lonely and vice. I think my the greatest fear inside me.

00:12:00:06 – 00:12:17:03
Claudia
But with what you are doing, I’m sure, I mean, you will always have wonderful people around you team, coworkers, friends. It’s just so admirable.

00:12:17:05 – 00:12:23:07
Claudia
So, you started your company as per bionics in 2019?

00:12:23:09 – 00:12:24:03
Anna
Yes. Correct.

00:12:24:03 – 00:12:48:03
Claudia
And then only four years later, I read on your website you, already now approved in the U.S and people who need your, product. Can I say your product? Yeah, I wanted to, you know, make it sound a little bit bigger, but I come to that later. The prosthetics can be reimbursed by insurance. Yeah, yeah. Which I thought unbelievable.

00:12:48:03 – 00:13:17:09
Claudia
I mean, that is just a speedy time. Not that I am working in this field at all, but anything that needs approval, in my experience, in this country takes forever. So four years to me is like a nanosecond. So your product, the Esper Bionics hand prosthetic augmented fine Female hand, yes, was crowning the cover of time magazine as one of the world’s most important inventions.

00:13:17:11 – 00:13:50:12
Claudia
Yes. A year before your your prosthetic hand was awarded with the Red Dot Industrial Design Award. And I saw you in Davos at this round discussion of the female quotient. And you were showing the hand, which was just so elegant and so fine and filigree and everything. So I was completely blown away. And you shared with me in your notes before that the moment that was so impactful for you was when a young female tried.

00:13:50:14 – 00:13:51:13
Anna
By hand, yet.

00:13:51:13 – 00:14:06:23
Claudia
Prosthetic on the hand on for the first time, and for the first time in her life, she had two hands. Oh, that was just so moving. Just by reading it. So it would be wonderful if you can tell us about that moment and what it meant for you.

00:14:07:01 – 00:14:28:18
Anna
so, yes, we started at four years ago and like fourth, we are two and a half years. It was nonstop prototype and work. We just need to figure out how this hand should look like. which functions we can add and which features we can. And the speed of this hand, the strength of this hand.

00:14:28:20 – 00:14:50:00
Anna
And it was the moment when we were ready to try this hand it with, some people and to be found a thousand volunteers, in Ukraine who would like to test and try the hand for the first time and give us the feedback. So, Nika, she was the one of our sports tutors. She was 16 years old.

00:14:50:01 – 00:15:16:05
Anna
She was a singer. She took part, in a song competition, very famous in Ukraine. And she is the very, very attractive young girl with a huge ambition. And, she came to us with her mom for the first time. So we described everything. We took the measure of her, really built part of the hand. We learned her story.

00:15:16:05 – 00:15:39:04
Anna
She was born without the hand. And she never used any prosthetic hands in her life because of the external look, because the functionality. And it’s very expensive. One in even in Ukraine. So her choice for, that time was not to use any credit card at all. And, it takes like, a couple of months to make a hand for her.

00:15:39:04 – 00:16:02:19
Anna
And we asked her to visit our office and tried this hand for the first time. So Nika came. It was several engineers and your hair, all our team who was working so long for this product. And so she put the hand to the socket for the first time, connected everything, and tried to, I think it was like a bottle of water.

00:16:02:21 – 00:16:37:11
Anna
So she was tried to grab this bottle and to do it, and I can literally see she would start crying because for her it was so huge emotions. She doing something she can expect, she can be able to do in her whole life. So she has this experience to communicate with the world by two hands. If she hasn’t had this experience to grab something with her left arm, but she doesn’t have this feeling called to do this at all.

00:16:37:11 – 00:17:05:20
Anna
And for the first time she she can hold something with her left hand, like put it on the table, take it from the table. and all our team, we just we just solve this. And it was this understanding, this very moving, moment for us that we are doing something right. So we accomplished something very important already.

00:17:05:20 – 00:17:34:17
Anna
And with this product and with our efforts, we can literally change the lives of the people who was born without the hands or have amputated during the life. And they they are really a very cold past, and they sometimes very stress and they are depressed about, the things which are going on in their life. And we, can give them the opportunity to restore functional repair and not only about functionality.

00:17:34:17 – 00:18:05:16
Anna
We can give them opportunity to be specialized in society. It will give them this self-confidence. And it’s the very crucial moment for our team because we literally understand this. This product is working. This product can restore the functionality. People can literally use this product and everything looks great. And starting from this point, the team, contacted with some other volunteers and start our activity in Ukraine.

00:18:05:16 – 00:18:38:21
Anna
This this trial is to be a real people and start communication. We as prosthetic centers in Ukraine. And then, when we passed this phase of a trials in Ukraine, we understood that we are ready to go further and go to our main market to the United States. But for them, it was, I think, one of the life changing moment in her life, because after after this, of course, we made some videos, some for us to start sharing and a lot of media they would like to talk with me.

00:18:39:01 – 00:19:04:16
Anna
They would. They started during the by sharing two different photos, shooting for different interviews, propose some model work, propose some, and if so, she can feel herself like, very unique and very special. And the people around you, they support you. And yes, for someone you look different, but in a good way. They adore you. They really appreciate you.

00:19:04:16 – 00:19:26:19
Anna
And they they seem to like. And beautiful young girl with, yes, this bionic hand, but this elegant one, these very, good looking one. And you can just adore everyone around. And it was a very great feeling for Nika and for us, it was a pleasure to give this opportunity part.

00:19:26:21 – 00:19:50:09
Claudia
And that must be just such an amazing motivator also for you and your team to keep going and to improve and to continue to work on this. So that was then 2019, 2020. Then two years later you are facing war. And I remember that you shared that you consciously made the decision to keep the main production in the Ukraine.

00:19:50:09 – 00:19:55:18
Claudia
Yeah, amazing. I mean, how how do you do this? This is fascinating.

00:19:55:20 – 00:20:18:16
Anna
So we, we had the hard choice because a part of our team, won the war as part of two. We are in Berlin, and another part of they, work in Kiev, and we need to decide what should we do in this situation? And we have, all manufacturing facility in Kiev, Ukraine, mostly all engineers.

00:20:18:16 – 00:20:45:20
Anna
Also there some contract works, in Ukraine, a lot of fancy machines, equipment. Everything was in Ukraine, in Kiev. And we have this conversation with our teammates and a lot of them, they were they weren’t ready to leave Ukraine. And it was like a very short gap with Ukraine for months for like a couple of days. Then they closed the border and it was mostly impossible to relocate.

00:20:45:21 – 00:21:11:10
Anna
team, when the war has started. that’s why we like, discussed with the team and we make these decisions to stay in Ukraine. We relocated our, some of our facility to the western part of Ukraine and, worked there for a couple of months and then came back to pay. But. Yeah, and we decided to put all our facility in Kiev, because the majority of team is there.

00:21:11:10 – 00:21:38:18
Anna
And also, we understand that we will be working with a lot of military cases in Ukraine. We will have a huge base of users of partners there. And the future market for the next ten years, for sure, and to be able to provide the best service because we don’t own is that provides the hand and that’s all we also do service, customer support, training for clinicians and that full factor of this work.

00:21:38:18 – 00:21:58:00
Anna
And to be able to do this, we need to be close to this people and speak the same language with them. And to be able to make this service very fast. And that’s why, we decided it will be a good point, that we will be in the same country with them, and it will be very easy to contact, because at any moment they will need us.

00:21:58:01 – 00:22:25:11
Anna
And I think it was the decision which was made by us as a co-founders and also with our team, which were ready to support us from this decision and try to stay in Ukraine and continue working and, even scale up, our one effectual facility, our manufacturing line. And right now comparing to 2022, be a growth for at least two times.

00:22:25:14 – 00:22:53:19
Anna
So our team was, we were 14 there. And right now we are 45. Wow. And, yes. And we, we are okay to the bigger office like five times bigger that we had, this time. And everything looks okay for us. Of course, it’s hard. It’s hard to work in Ukraine right now. The cost of, this lack of electricity is they have a problem with live all the time.

00:22:53:21 – 00:23:16:21
Anna
all of this, sound alarms, all this bomb bank, all of this mobilization processes. So a lot of issues, which can distract from the work, and to understand this. And we are trying to help our teammates all the time, but for us, we can’t do impossible for them. but I think we are doing great comparing to other companies.

00:23:16:23 – 00:23:34:07
Anna
Some of the companies close, some of the companies struggling to comparing to how Karp is building the hardware startup in general, how hard it is to build, startup in a work time and have them on the factory and, and teams there. I think we are doing a great job.

00:23:34:09 – 00:23:52:23
Claudia
Wow. Just admirable really. So I read about this amazing hand that is is based on a very smart system that actually grows and develops with the user. So let’s say how how can I imagine that? Like, I mean.

00:23:53:01 – 00:23:53:16
Anna
it’s such.

00:23:53:16 – 00:23:56:19
Claudia
A I’ve never thought about this world.

00:23:56:21 – 00:24:33:01
Anna
it’s very simple system to one I will describe here. You will understand easily. But we are trying to build, the smart robotic hand and the hands, which can understand user behavior and be like, personalized gadget for each of our user. So, for example, some of our user uses the hands during the two weeks or one month, and he or she does a lot of actions, grab a lot of objects from table from floor, and holding a lot of actions and choose different grip to do this.

00:24:33:03 – 00:24:58:03
Anna
So we collect this data about how the user interacts with the hand which greets in which situation she or he prefers to chew. And we collect this data on our server platform. And we analyze this data and we create for each of the case like behavior pattern. And then we update the hand. The firmware of the hand took this behavior plotter like you update your iPhone when you feel better.

00:24:58:07 – 00:25:23:02
Anna
That’s how we update the hand. I think you feel better. So the next time when user would like to take a call from the table or bag or anything else, the hand will understand that in this situation user mostly chooses grip and to propose this grip in advance. So if it’s three degree what user needs to do, just close the grip to take the object.

00:25:23:04 – 00:25:47:13
Anna
So by analyzing this data and how the user interacts on daily basis, this environment around him or her, we can make this can to understand the intention of each of our user. And this is the idea because how this hands control all of our users. They have sensors, the small like sensors, and the sensors should be located mirrors the zoom.

00:25:47:17 – 00:26:12:17
Anna
So it’s, noninvasive, just, sensors that on the skin surface. And when the muscles, are active, they transform this signal from active muscles through the hands. And, for example, one signal, can be like call to action to open or close the grip. And another signal can be called to action to change the grip in different direction.

00:26:12:22 – 00:26:33:04
Anna
And this covers the hand is controlled right now. So it’s all the way you need to activate your muscles to do some actions by the hands. And in our case, we would like to minimize this, activation of muscles and to be able the hand to propose the needed grip for advancing. And the user just needs to open or close the cream.

00:26:33:06 – 00:26:49:03
Anna
So it will be easier for all of the people to control the hand. it will be, I think that muscle activation will be less needed in this case. And, it will be more naturally, control, I think, in the future.

00:26:49:05 – 00:27:03:13
Claudia
Fascinating. And it is the first hand I understand that is really fitting the anatomy of the female body. So the female arm and it’s kind of elegantly prolongs the female body in that way.

00:27:03:13 – 00:27:31:16
Anna
Yes that’s correct. Right now we have two sizes. We have big size for men and small size for women. And when we started this company, how the other companies started, they start from the big one and then go to the small one. we started from the small one because the it was this, lack of really functional elegance and biological look, like hands on the market.

00:27:31:16 – 00:27:58:10
Anna
So all the hands, they are, like, Terminator look like, very, strong but aggressive, very, like muscular. And it was no option for women. And that’s why we decided to do really is a great job here and designed very anatomical look like pant. And it was very challenging to our engineer to be honest because it was all of a fight against functionality and beauty.

00:27:58:12 – 00:28:21:08
Anna
and we would like to see everything in one product and all our engineers like it’s impossible. We can do it bigger. It’s impossible to do. It’s so small. And it was also all the way to conversations like this and to be improved like, no, we can do this, let’s find some different way to do this. And right now, yes, it’s very elegant.

00:28:21:08 – 00:29:01:05
Anna
When you put on the glow, you can see the both hands looked like the same. And, for women, it’s very important that external, of course. And they are really appreciate the design for men. Usually it’s also important, but not in a such way as for women. But, when we started to be, we, like, think, that we will have a lot of females, but right now we have the more the, I think the majority of cases, it’s, men because of military cases in Ukraine and because we are working with politics right now.

00:29:01:05 – 00:29:27:02
Anna
So we produce much more big parts of than a small one. but I think it will change in the future and we will produce more, small hands too. but like, because we are focusing more on, work in Ukraine, that’s why this balance right now. But yes, the design of the hands, it’s very unique and it’s very good looking, I think.

00:29:27:02 – 00:29:34:11
Anna
And, we have confidence for the the amount of the Covid virus is pathetic in the future.

00:29:34:13 – 00:29:43:00
Claudia
So what are like the next steps for you and your company and how do you envision the near future.

00:29:43:02 – 00:30:13:09
Anna
I think our next steps, we will be going to the control system and so we created the hardware device. We do, we, developed prosthetic hand. And right now, we would like to focus on control of this, prosthetic device, not only our, but also, all others prosthetic hands on the market and to right now, we are developing some control system to be able to control faster and different wearable devices around us.

00:30:13:10 – 00:30:35:21
Anna
So it will be our next products, this control system. And also we are working, on collecting body data. right now it is by the data from our users who are our health. But in the future, we would like to create the biggest set of by the data to be able to go farther and start to work and communicate.

00:30:35:21 – 00:31:07:01
Anna
We as a company of which we are developing, small electronic inside our body, this tiny implant and this tiny implants, they will have different functionality, to communicate with the wearable devices like phases or sources and different gadgets around us. And they also can deliver drug, for example. They also can help us to sleep better. So different different functions can be done by this small implants inside us.

00:31:07:01 – 00:31:33:10
Anna
And to be able to go to this technology, we need to have this big set of body data. So this will be our like very long term goal because we would like to help millions and billions of people around the world. And to there I think the best technology which will be developing during the next decade, will consist of a small, tiny, implanted electronics.

00:31:33:16 – 00:31:44:23
Anna
And we would like to participate in this journey with other companies and to be all right, this started but this project from prosthetic area. But we will go farther and farther.

00:31:45:01 – 00:32:12:21
Claudia
Admirable. So yeah, it’ll be. Yeah, it’s I mean, it’s so futuristic in a way. But then again, I mean, you already have the hand. You already, developed the technology there you are bridging between technology and the social sensation. Yeah. And the emotional sensation. So you have your basis set and if you develop technology from there, it’s not so frightening for someone like me.

00:32:12:23 – 00:32:16:11
Claudia
You know, I think everything can be cured with herbs. Yeah. So.

00:32:16:13 – 00:32:18:15
Anna

00:32:18:17 – 00:32:40:13
Claudia
But, so, I mean, you, like the number one driver of it all. You must be constantly working and traveling. And what is your way to to calm down when you feel like. Okay, I need to take a pause. I need to take a breath here. What do you do to calm yourself down?

00:32:40:15 – 00:33:08:06
Anna
Usually I try just to turn off my phone and, What? It’s usually make me, like, happy. be able to calm down. It’s been years of water. It’s going to be sea, ocean, the river, lake, just to walk around the water reading some book or have conversation with myself or something like this. And it’s all without. It would be like two hours walk and sometimes it will be enough.

00:33:08:06 – 00:33:43:14
Anna
For me. It’s not usually an opportunity to do this like weekly, but I’m, I, I’m really trying to do this like monthly. and also I sometimes need this day off. Now when you, during all like email and messenger or everything and just doing something what you would like to do go to coffee, reading, go shopping, have this conversation with friends, like enjoying beautiful New York or Paris or battling whatever you are right now, I just have this day.

00:33:43:15 – 00:33:51:17
Anna
You are not a founder. You are not a cofounder. You are not a woman on this path right now. You are just a person in this world.

00:33:51:19 – 00:34:14:04
Claudia
Yes, yes. Just. Anna. Yeah, yeah, well, I hope you can have enough of those days so your power doesn’t run out. Because what you do and what you move is just beyond and so admirable. And I thank you so much for your time and for sharing your story here on my podcast. Shift happens.

00:34:14:06 – 00:34:20:16
Anna
And a lot for having me. And good luck, with your future guests as well.

00:34:20:16 – 00:34:34:20
Claudia
Thank you so much, Anna and.

00:34:34:22 – 00:35:02:21
Claudia
To me it is fascinating and in this case, mind boggling when women are able to move and beyond that, the fields they are developing this whole realm of new ways with AI and electronic inserts in the body to improve health functionality, to positively impact the world of so many. And an Esper Bionics case, the world and destiny of the many war victims.

00:35:02:23 – 00:35:17:23
Claudia
I’m just blown away by all this, and I’m feeling very humbled by this conversation and Anna’s spirit.

00:35:18:01 – 00:35:42:17
Claudia
Shift happens, has been created and is hosted by me, Claudia Mahler editing Andy Boroson social media. Magdalena Reckendrees, I hope you felt connected and heard by listening to Shift Happens and please leave a review and a rating wherever you listen to podcasts.