Sophie Grégoire Trudeau: How To Move Closer Together And Connect With Each Other

00:00:02:13 – 00:00:23:15
Sophie
I never believed I was a first lady. I never believed I was the wife of somebody to describe who I was. Yes, I was married. Yes, I was an unofficial first lady. But I had a conscious intent to not identify, too, that people wanted me to in different ways. Right. Even mothers we all know as moms. We identify with the role of being a mother.

00:00:23:17 – 00:00:41:10
Sophie
But there is a woman and there’s a child in there, and there’s a human being, which, with so many different facets than just being a mother, puts us in boxes. We don’t need to do that.

00:00:41:12 – 00:01:17:17
Claudia
Hello and welcome back to Shift Happens. I am Uber excited and honored to welcome Sophie Grégoire Trudeau. Sophie and I met through our mutual friend, the dearest lead Dayle Hadden, and instantly hit it off. So I thought it would be just great to continue our vivid conversation. And my podcast is voila! Here we are. Sophie Grégoire Trudeau is a force of nature, bestselling author, internationally celebrated public speaker, and a passionate mental health advocate.

00:01:17:19 – 00:01:55:18
Claudia
She has championed gender equality, female empowerment, youth self-esteem, the importance of physical activity and connection with nature. Sophie spent more than a decade in public life as Canada’s de facto first lady, and has made the most admirable use of her access to the most influential thought leaders and innovators of our time. We had such a fascinating discussion about the importance of getting to know ourselves and the eternal question, who am I and how can I reconnect with my true self?

00:01:55:20 – 00:02:31:09
Claudia
This could have gone on for many more hours. You should definitely follow Sophie’s social media pages and get her new book Closer Together. Knowing ourselves, loving Each other. Please listen till the end as Sophie guides us through a simple yet highly soothing vagus nerve calming exercise.

00:02:31:11 – 00:02:53:11
Claudia
So welcome, Sophie Grégoire Trudeau. I am so blessed and excited that you are here with me today in conversation for a shift happens. It’s been a long time in the making. And yay! Here we are, finally. So thank you so, so much for your time. And we talk and shift happens about pivotal moments in life and turning points.

00:02:53:11 – 00:03:06:00
Claudia
And you shared already up front a few with me. And of course, I’ve read your book and we will talk about that later. But before we get into it, I want to ask you, what is your current state of mind?

00:03:06:02 – 00:03:14:04
Sophie
Gratitude, because you are just one of the very few people who haven’t butchered my name, pronounce yet.

00:03:14:06 – 00:03:38:23
Sophie
Because Sophie the Gregoire is very complicated, but because you speak French, right? It was just. It was just great to hear. Thank you. Thank you for, for your pronunciation. But my my true state of of mind and of heart. Because now I don’t dissociate them both anymore. Right. I think it’s a dance between fearlessness and doubt.

00:03:39:00 – 00:03:42:10
Sophie
If I can be raw, honest, it’s a dance between.

00:03:42:12 – 00:03:43:09
Claudia

00:03:43:11 – 00:03:47:04
Sophie
We do live in uncertain times. We really live in uncertain times, you know.

00:03:47:06 – 00:04:00:12
Claudia
Yeah. We really do feel all right and Well said. Yes. Uncertain times. But there are moments of happiness. What is a moment of happiness for you? Oh, moment of perfect happiness for you.

00:04:00:17 – 00:04:23:07
Sophie
Oh, I accumulate them and micro moments all the time. I’m a life lover. I would say the minute I wake up, when I wake up, I’m just like, hey, I get to have another day in this lifetime of this human body, which is already like a miracle in itself, because the percentage of chances that you get to embody a human body, you kind of embody something else, an animal or whatever, right?

00:04:23:09 – 00:04:42:16
Sophie
Is so is so Manute. It’s so tiny that when I wake up in the morning, even when you know, there’s tougher days than others, or you can have more anxiety on one day than the other, I’m still there’s something like a child inside of me who still wants to play. So mornings for me are a true moment of happiness.

00:04:42:16 – 00:04:58:00
Sophie
I always like candles. I make breakfast for my kids like I really. I smile in the morning and I do my ritual. I take care of myself. It’s quick because I don’t have lots of time, like most parents, but I’m very present and I try to not project too far in the day.

00:04:58:02 – 00:05:06:09
Claudia
Very good, good advice. Who’s, who’s a living person that you most admire? Oh.

00:05:06:11 – 00:05:32:01
Sophie
Those questions I always find so difficult because people will will tend to think about it like a celebrity. Right? But it’s not like that for me. I think. I think celebrity is a kind of like a delusion, an illusion. And we have to be very careful with the heroes that we choose. I know a lot of women in my life who have gone through great health challenges and relationship challenges, and I would say that they represent one woman and you are one.

00:05:32:01 – 00:05:53:05
Sophie
People who are listening are one. And, you know, women. We hold the emotional load of our families in our communities. So I would say that it includes one woman, but but that woman includes life itself. So all humanity. But I would say the ones who let go of their attachment and choose to be authentic in a culture that teaches us the opposite.

00:05:53:07 – 00:05:56:08
Sophie
I really admire people who get to do that.

00:05:56:10 – 00:06:01:04
Claudia
Yeah, yeah. No. True. Those, those are actually also real role models.

00:06:01:05 – 00:06:05:00
Sophie
Okay, so maybe Tilda Swinton, if you want a celebrity. Oh.

00:06:05:02 – 00:06:06:20
Claudia
Tilda Swinton, good choice.

00:06:07:01 – 00:06:13:21
Sophie
Choice.

00:06:13:23 – 00:06:42:01
Claudia
So now to your shifts. And, I read your book closer together. Knowing ourselves, loving each other. I really loved, loved the title. And, what really sprung out to me is your closeness to nature that has been instilled so early on, and that maybe fostered a certain resilience, or at least a place where you can always go back to, to find the power and the resilience.

00:06:42:03 – 00:07:12:11
Claudia
And if I may just read quickly what you noted down, because that’s a whirlwind of of pivots and a whirlwind went of a life healing from an eating disorder, raising a family in politics, becoming the unofficial first lady of Canada, transforming your marriage in the public eye, becoming an author, studying and teaching yoga, and then losing your father and your dear friend.

00:07:12:13 – 00:07:13:08
Claudia
Dale Hatton.

00:07:13:08 – 00:07:17:01
Sophie
Just our dear friend. Our dear friend, Dale Hatton. Yeah.

00:07:17:05 – 00:07:49:04
Claudia
Yes, our dear friend, Dale Hatton. I mean Sophie, that’s that’s really big. And it’s of course, you know, your, your roles and where life brought to you is, you know, particularly intense and you’ve been particularly on stage. But I feel that women in general carry a lot. So your way of describing in your book how important it is to know ourselves to be able to really love, I mean, it’s the eternal message.

00:07:49:09 – 00:08:17:07
Sophie
It’s the eternal message. It’s, it’s it’s before it’s after the end and before the beginning. It’s been taught by all great sages across, you know, history. I think it’s even, I would say impregnated and and held by Mother Nature. Those that same lesson our our quality and our capacity to come into silence within ourselves. And this doesn’t mean like meditating in a cave for five hours, okay?

00:08:17:09 – 00:08:43:13
Sophie
It just means being able to slow down, understanding how we bonded with the people who took care of us in the first months of our life and years, how that impacted our neural biology and how we express still that person and that personality, in all of our relationships, if you think you’re four and a half, you know, year old active child is still not present in your relationships, read the book because science will prove you differently.

00:08:43:15 – 00:09:03:12
Sophie
When I’m having an argument with a partner or, you know, if your best friend doesn’t want to see you one night, or if a colleague just triggers you so badly, every single trigger that you have is a gift for you to reflect on. Why did that trigger me? Why do I have this reaction and how can I repair it if needed?

00:09:03:14 – 00:09:35:16
Sophie
Now imagine looking at the state of the world right now, whether it’s in your schools, communities, in your homes, with your own family members, or on the political stage. Look at all the people who seem like they’re in distress, regulated state where they don’t even understand why they move the way they do. And, you know, in the book, I interview a great psychologist who’s been seeing people for 40 years in her clinic, and she said, Sophie, the most unhappy human beings I’ve ever met in my whole entire life, are the ones who cannot trust in others.

00:09:35:18 – 00:09:59:03
Sophie
I have chills just saying this, because every little kid comes into this life with the inherent nature of trust. They are malleable. They need the adults around them to give them a sense of reality, to give them a sense of validation, to give them a sense of stable love and an accompaniment to have their most basic needs met.

00:09:59:03 – 00:10:16:20
Sophie
Right. So depending on how that took shape and I have quizzes, fun quizzes in the book for people to take to see you know, what kind of attachment do you have? It doesn’t reflect 100% of who you are as a human being. But here’s the thing, Claudia, do you think like, are you an extrovert or an introvert? What do you.

00:10:16:20 – 00:10:20:12
Claudia
Think? Actually, it took me a while. I’m an introvert.

00:10:20:14 – 00:10:53:02
Sophie
Okay, so I’m an extrovert. Okay, now we can tell each other this for a very long time, but it is just a way for us to describe our personality. And our personality is not who we are. Personality is an accumulation of adaptive behaviors and defense mechanisms. We formed our personality in relationship to the adults who raised us, and we adapted behaviors to be loved and seen and validated.

00:10:53:04 – 00:11:25:22
Sophie
It’s just we all do it. We do it as a kid, and we still do it as adults. In many ways. That’s why it’s so hard to understand that we’re not fixed in our personality. We can change, we can learn, we can rewire by experience. But this means taking risks, taking leaps. And even if you feel the fear, which I do like, every normal human being is telling yourself, you know what, I don’t want to be, impolite here, but, push it away here to be polite, push it away and go further to see what you’re really made of.

00:11:25:22 – 00:11:55:20
Sophie
This is true physically, and this is true mentally. We need good stressors in our lives in order to be able to actually build a resilience, to deal with stress in big quantities when it when it’s feels overwhelming. So personality is not who we are. We need to be shifting ourselves into a growth mindset instead of being fixed into who we think we are because we can’t love ourselves if we can’t change, and if we think we’re just the way we are and there’s like a, you know, almost a grumpiness to it, right?

00:11:55:22 – 00:11:56:14
Claudia
Yeah, yeah.

00:11:56:16 – 00:12:17:23
Sophie
And we can’t love others either. If we were not able to sit in silence and stop, identify it. You name the roles that I occupied earlier when you described a bit of my shifts and points of inflection and changes, I never believed I was a First lady. I never believed that I was the wife of somebody to describe who I was.

00:12:18:03 – 00:12:41:15
Sophie
Yes, I was married. Yes, I was an an official first lady, but I had a conscious intent to not identify, too, that people wanted me to in different ways. Right? Even mothers we all know is moms. We identify with the role of being a mother. But there is a woman and there’s a child in there, and there’s a human being, which with so many different facets than just being a mother, it puts us in boxes.

00:12:41:15 – 00:12:43:04
Sophie
We don’t need to do that.

00:12:43:06 – 00:12:43:21
Claudia
That’s true.

00:12:43:21 – 00:13:08:12
Sophie
And plus women, plus women, we add the guilt and the shame because of the culture that we’ve been raised in. And it’s unbearable to be honest. Women’s plates are overflowing. It is too much and we’re pathologizing our self. We’re we’re making ourselves sick by the way we live. And we think that we suffer from sickness. But really, our bodies are doing exactly what they should be doing in abnormal circumstances.

00:13:08:14 – 00:13:11:01
Sophie
That’s really what’s happening.

00:13:11:03 – 00:13:28:20
Claudia
Yeah, exactly. And that’s where the knowing yourself comes in, right? I mean, if we would know ourselves better, earlier, let’s say earlier than certain things could probably be prevented because we would realize that we change and that it’s okay to change and to adapt and to rethink and to, I don’t know, reinvent.

00:13:28:21 – 00:13:30:20
Sophie
No, change is difficult.

00:13:30:20 – 00:13:31:22
Claudia
Everything is change.

00:13:32:00 – 00:14:04:09
Sophie
Exactly right. Change is difficult. And the human brain that we share, you and I and everybody listening, we have the same human brain. It hasn’t changed in 200,000 years, but it we we’re is differently with epigenetics. So the way the environment plays on your DNA and how and how you change. But I think that we were raised in a culture that is telling us be who you are, you know, go after yourself, build your success by yourself, be a, you know, a one man show, a one woman show, a self-made person that is complete B.S..

00:14:04:09 – 00:14:35:16
Sophie
I don’t believe that for a second. Nobody is self-made. Yes. When you want to do the work of self-knowledge, nobody else can do it for you. Totally true. But every human being that you meet on your path, whether it’s a negative or positive encounter, plays a role on your development and your your your process of creating, you know, wealth, whether it’s financial, whether it’s physical, whether it’s social, it’s spiritual, whatever that wealth means.

00:14:35:18 – 00:14:53:06
Sophie
But we now understand that there is no wealth everywhere in society without mental wealth. And actually, that’s why I wrote the book so that people could have access to really basic tools to get to know who they are. This shouldn’t be a luxury, and it shouldn’t be reserved to elites in the normal biology biological field, you know.

00:14:53:08 – 00:15:22:22
Claudia
Yeah. And of course, you know, books like videos and advocates for mental health, like, you are, so important because they are still stigma, they are still such taboo. And we are still working on finding a language around it. Right. So it’s yeah, I mean, it’s the ultimate topic. And because of the way we live at the moment, at the times that we are living in, which will not be changing, you know, anytime soon, it is becoming an even more important topic.

00:15:22:22 – 00:15:24:18
Claudia
But maybe at every generation said.

00:15:24:19 – 00:15:49:15
Sophie
Yeah, you said the the very special magic word earlier because you said earlier you said, let’s teach this as early as possible. And I would say that this if we teach young people from, you know, kindergarten, primary school and teenagers how to perceive their, body reactions before the emotions arise. So let’s say, I don’t know, your throat is tight tightening up your heart rate.

00:15:49:15 – 00:16:08:14
Sophie
Your heart rate is is heightening. You feel flushed in the face. You’re just about to get angry. Okay. For example, if we teach our kids how to perceive what’s happening in their bodies, how to sense it, and then to catch the emotion that’s rising, saying, okay, my body’s talking to me right now. I’m getting angry. So what do I do?

00:16:08:16 – 00:16:25:04
Sophie
I’m going to take these five breaths that I learned in school, or that my mom taught me, or that my cousin taught me whatever, and I’m going to regulate my little nervous system. Maybe this is this language is too evolved for a, you know, six year old, but I’m going to, I don’t know, play with what’s happening in my body and bring it back home.

00:16:25:08 – 00:16:44:17
Sophie
Okay. We can be that simple. Yeah. And then you do the exercise, so you catch, you pause and you repair. Because then you don’t want to scream at your neighbor or your classmate or your teacher or your lover or your friend, because you understand that it’s going to bring you nowhere. First of all, and this doesn’t mean that we can’t feel emotions.

00:16:44:20 – 00:17:06:13
Sophie
We have to feel them and let let the body feel them. And your mind feel them intensely, knowing that you’re allowing yourself to feel them. Because not feeling your true emotions is a recipe for actually complete disaster. So we have to build spaces where children and teenagers are and, you know, parents who have gone through trauma two, right?

00:17:06:15 – 00:17:39:00
Sophie
So many parents haven’t looked at their own trauma, and they’re leaving that trauma on their kids, and it’s not their responsibility to bear. And we we all have trauma. I include myself in there. So yeah, it’s a big task that we have. But to be honest, Claudia, it’s not it’s not impossible. It’s far from impossible. The greatest sages, the greatest teachers, you know, to be able to calm the mind so we can come into the present moment in a society that constantly pushes you away from the present moment constantly and on to the head.

00:17:39:00 – 00:18:05:13
Sophie
An istic treadmill of accumulation. What more can I get to be happy? What more can I do to be happy? You know, Doctor Gabor Marty will allow me to write the book and was a great mentor of mine. Said there’s a difference between happiness and contempt, because unhappiness from a chemical neurobiological standpoint, you’re excreting, hormones, like, I don’t know, like dopamine, for example, that are, that are, you know, they’re reward hormones.

00:18:05:13 – 00:18:38:05
Sophie
But with content it’s more relaxing hormones. So it’s really not the same way of being inside of your body from cell, from a cellular level. It’s it’s fascinating. But we’re constantly being we’re constantly being triggered with dopamine highs right in our society with emails, with social media, with, eating more, with buying more, with whatever more. Right. And then what happens, unfortunately, is that when we’re on a dopamine high, it’s like a seesaw.

00:18:38:07 – 00:18:46:10
Sophie
The calming hormones become boring to the brain. Now that’s a true problem. It’s a really true problem. And this is why we’re looking for the next high.

00:18:46:10 – 00:18:55:02
Claudia
That’s so interesting. The calming moments become boring to the brain. That is really, That’s. Yeah. I mean, that’s how it is.

00:18:55:02 – 00:19:19:07
Sophie
It makes me want to cry because the natural state of a human being is to feel safe, to feel a sense of belonging and feel to feel like like they’re loved. Right. By nature, by the world, by people. And when we’re constantly pushed away from the present moment, we can’t really express and feel love because love is present.

00:19:19:10 – 00:19:53:01
Sophie
It’s all it, it’s really. Am I attuned to you? Am I paying attention to you? We all know the best lovers do that, right? Yes we do. Yeah. But and this is no joke, because when you try to regulate a four year old who’s having a crisis, usually a good parent will look at them in the. I will put a hand on the shoulder, will take the time to come back to home, use that status to come back home, to come back to a sense of normal inside the little kids body, where there’s the stressor is slowly leaving.

00:19:53:02 – 00:20:04:08
Sophie
The child is feeling better. Tell me how you feel. I’m going to stay here with you until you feel better. There is no rush. When’s the last time you were told that by an adult?

00:20:04:10 – 00:20:05:23
Claudia
Well, a yoga teacher, yes.

00:20:06:00 – 00:20:27:13
Sophie
I know, that’s why I still teach. And I’m a student. But it’s so funny what you just said. Because I’m sure this is true for a lot of people. Like, if you’re listening right now, think about the last time an adult was so present with you, gave you their time, their attention, that you almost felt like, wow, am I am I deserving of all this?

00:20:27:15 – 00:20:55:09
Sophie
You know, carry ING and gifting and and presence and gaze and love and touch? Well, the answer is yes. It’s a really profound need that human beings have. And and, you know, you can live an entire life would be unfortunate, but without sexuality, like you wouldn’t die. Right? But touch for survival is extremely important. Yes. So we can’t really survive without human touch.

00:20:55:11 – 00:20:59:13
Sophie
That’s why isolation. And it’s a form of torture, right?

00:20:59:15 – 00:21:21:05
Claudia
Yeah. When we go, circle back to one of your pivots that you shared and listed, what is the one that you would like to go a little bit deeper into and share a few more personal experiences, like the, transforming of your marriage in the public eye or, or how you, you know.

00:21:21:05 – 00:21:21:17
Sophie
So.

00:21:21:18 – 00:21:34:14
Claudia
Healed yourself from the eating disorder. Yeah. Your father’s loss. I mean, it’s yeah, it’s so much when just goes through them like this and they’re all so such huge momentums I think.

00:21:34:20 – 00:21:59:13
Sophie
And this is universal. This is not unique to me. Those experiences that I listed, I listed because they’re a part of my life. But I really what I realized by traveling, by meeting humans, by being a mental health advocate, by raising kids, is that they’re there’s such a universality to our problems, to our losses, to our grief, to our suffering and the difference between suffering and trauma.

00:21:59:13 – 00:22:37:15
Sophie
Suffering is part of life. It’s going to happen. The question that I love contemplating is, when do you want your pain? Now or later? You choose because it’s going to come, damn it, right? Unfortunately it is. So if you’re not so afraid of pain as a process of discovery, as a process of breaking open in the more hardened spaces inside of you, then you give yourself a chance to not close in with time, with your emotions and what you keeping inside, which is the difference between suffering and trauma.

00:22:37:17 – 00:23:06:15
Sophie
Suffering is normal. It’s part of human life. But trauma is all. The difference between the two is constriction and is what you held in captivity. You know, dark inside, like, all crumpled up in a little ball and you haven’t been looking at it. It will come back to haunt you. So, you know, whether I was suffering from eating disorders, by the way, eating disorders are all like any other type of addiction sex, television, relationships, gambling, you name it.

00:23:06:19 – 00:23:29:05
Sophie
We all have micro habits. If I were to ask you now, sorry, I or anybody listening try to find a habit that you have in your life that gives you temporary relief when you do it, okay, but in the long term, it’s not so good for you or for the people around you. So try to find way. Okay, so that’s the definition of an addiction.

00:23:29:07 – 00:23:40:21
Sophie
So it could be, you know those interesting those 2 or 3 glasses of wine. It could be heroin. It could be crack. It could be relationships. It could be, you know, eating sugar.

00:23:41:00 – 00:23:42:12
Claudia
Certain behavior in it. Yeah.

00:23:42:14 – 00:24:09:02
Sophie
It could be addiction to social media. It could be, a too much shopping. Whatever it is that gives you a temporary relief, like a, right. Fame, reward, incentive pleasures in the brain and every addiction. We shouldn’t look at the addiction itself, whether it’s the eating disorder or the list of addictions that exist. We have to look at the pain underlying the addiction.

00:24:09:04 – 00:24:45:21
Sophie
So that’s probably an eating disorder in my life. Then the transformation of my marriage, letting go of pain, right? Processing pain and learning to let go of attachment so, so freaking hard. So hard because very hard because we’re wired for attachment. But to become a mature adult, our responsibility is to express steady work at our authentic self and letting go of attachment.

00:24:45:23 – 00:25:22:04
Sophie
I heard not too long ago that if somebody loves you for how you make them feel, they will be afraid to lose you. But if somebody loves you for who you are, they will be afraid to hurt you. And that pretty much sums up all relationships and our bonds of attachment and habits. Yeah. Present. Yeah, yeah. And whether it’s the loss of my father again, letting go of attachment, you know, letting go of the clinging to life itself.

00:25:22:06 – 00:25:55:05
Sophie
We cling to to youth. Right. We’re obsessed with youth, right? From from our hair to our to our faces to our bodies to our genitals, to our everything. We are brainwashed and hijacked in our emotional systems with the obsession of youth. And we’re paying a great, great, great price for this, a great price. Not only are we dehumanizing our bodies and and leaving, a legacy to young people, that is hard to understand for them, you know, and for us, it’s our normal.

00:25:55:09 – 00:26:02:21
Claudia
So frightening also. Yeah. So frightening and so unnatural. It’s put so much pressure. It’s like, oh please, let’s stop.

00:26:02:22 – 00:26:26:09
Sophie
And it’s also, you know, I would say making us all look the same in different ways, like the from the forehead to the lips to the eyes, the we’re creating like an avatar of what a true human being is and are we truly noticing the price to pay for what we’re doing? Because there is a high price and we’re losing wisdom to this.

00:26:26:09 – 00:26:54:14
Sophie
We’re losing, closeness. We’re losing community. Because when we start really being so obsessed with how we look and how we, you know, do we conform to the norms, we lose our authentic selves. And when we lose our authentic selves, we lose creativity. And when we lose creativity, listen to this. Brené Brown said this. She said creativity unleashed or unprocessed metastasizes.

00:26:54:15 – 00:27:29:03
Sophie
And that word is well chosen because, for example, all the women across the world who put their needs last, who tend to the needs of all the people before they do to theirs, have something like 75% more chances of developing autoimmune diseases. Most fibromyalgia, lupus name it. And this is being studied and and it’s real because when we can’t express our true selves, when we can’t be our creative self, which is what human beings are called for on this earth.

00:27:29:05 – 00:27:48:08
Sophie
And creativity is not just a form of art, it’s a form of expression. It’s a form of relationship. It’s a form of of sexual encounter. It’s a form of contemplation of life. Creativity is all around us and it’s inside of us. And children are creative, right? So when we lose creativity, we lose touch with who we truly are.

00:27:48:10 – 00:28:19:21
Sophie
And when we lose touch with who we truly are, we adopt behaviors that are not ours in order to please. When we do this, we create inflammation because we and when resistance and in fighting mode, instead of being in creation mode. And when we create inflammation inside our bodies, diseases can set in. So now we understand that the emotional system and the immune system, for example, they have the same role to push away what’s negative, what’s not good for you, whether it’s in a friendship or, you know, in a, in a foreign virus.

00:28:19:23 – 00:28:37:22
Sophie
And to keep what’s good, the good bacteria in your gut or the healthy relationship with your friend, they work together. We’ve been separating them forever. If they’re not intertwined and they’re not dealt with as a symbiotic duo, we become sick. We just do.

00:28:38:00 – 00:28:41:03
Sophie
I know it’s so complex and it’s so simple all the same.

00:28:41:05 – 00:29:11:22
Claudia
And yeah, exactly. It’s so simple. And, yeah, I guess writing about it, reading about it, sharing one’s experiences and wisdom about it, and always breaking it down to a level that everybody, not only the four year old, but the teenager and the twin and the new parents and the newly divorced and the midlife crisis people. Yeah. I mean, that’s just, you know, how can we reach each other in all these different stages because they’re all part of part of life.

00:29:12:00 – 00:29:36:09
Sophie
I like what you said with the word reach. I like that because. Because a baby will extend their arms to reach for the parent. Right. We extend an arm to a neighbor to help we we extend our hurt to a friend to give love and support relationships are not just about you and me, but it’s the space in between and what I’ve learned in writing this book.

00:29:36:09 – 00:30:08:09
Sophie
And I love that you said that, you know, this book can be read by, you know, I would say starting at easy, 12 years old, up to 99. Because what I tackled in the heart of this book is the human experience. And the arc of personality and how we build ourselves. And because I reached out to some of the best experts in the book, I learned a lot, by the way, when I was when I was writing this book and what I learned is that we can’t regulate two brains at the same time.

00:30:08:10 – 00:30:35:08
Sophie
Okay? So unless you’re you’re like, I don’t know, in a yoga room or in a community room and everybody’s meditating together or they’re singing together or they’re dancing together or they’re maybe holding each other, you know, for more than 30s that’s called coagulation. And but the thing is, when you’re in a relationship, whether it’s a coworker, a lover, or a friend, whatever a child, you can’t bring somebody who’s in distress back home and back into calm.

00:30:35:10 – 00:30:55:22
Sophie
If you’re trying to regulate the two brains at the same time. So this means if you were mad at me right now, Claudia, I would have to just look at you in the eyes and have a calming, reassuring face expression, okay? And listen to you without interjecting, without suggesting or without commenting. By the way, I’m. I’m not perfect at this.

00:30:55:22 – 00:31:18:06
Sophie
Okay? I have it wrong. Many times I had two teenagers struggling. But you would need at least ten minutes. To truly come back. So think about the baby who’s got a mother who’s got, I don’t know, two other siblings who’s already, you know asking for her attention. And the first child hurt themselves and you know she’s patting them on the back okay.

00:31:18:06 – 00:31:54:21
Sophie
Now go play because your sister needs my help. You know, the amount of time that we actually spend with each other as children or children, adult or adult to adult is so important to give ourselves the time to regulate and to to calm down, to feel safe, to feel loved, to feel validated without feeling judged as well. So if you’re going to, you know, you know, you’re going to come into a fiery discussion with a coworker or an argument with with your loved one, it’s really important to let the other talk and speak and listen without judging.

00:31:55:01 – 00:32:14:03
Sophie
And then you have your turn. It’s important to give each other turns. Now, another trick is to lay down on the ground, because your mammalian brain, it kind of like it goes like into safe mode. Like, okay, if I can lie down, it’s because there’s not a saber tooth tiger in the room. So sometimes lying down beside somebody, can help.

00:32:14:05 – 00:32:33:13
Sophie
They say also that when you’re driving, you know, when you, when you’re in with the kids in the car or with somebody that you, that you like, and you look forward, there’s lots of conversation that arise because apparently when you go at a certain speed and you’re focused, your gaze is focused forward, and you’re in a space where you can’t get out, right?

00:32:33:13 – 00:32:55:17
Sophie
You can’t slam the door and say, well, you can, but it’s it’s more difficult to get out of the room and say, I’m leaving the house or whatever, right? It sets a, kind of like a climate for regulation. So next time, if maybe today or tomorrow or in the next weeks to come, you feel in your body that high emotion rising, feel it all good.

00:32:55:17 – 00:33:15:02
Sophie
Super human, then catch it. Okay, this is what’s happening. Take a couple of breaths. Do your vagus nerve exercises. We could do one at the end if you want to. In the book, I have many yes societies that you can try. They’re simple. They don’t take a lot of time. Sometimes it takes even two minutes to regulate fully.

00:33:15:04 – 00:33:32:07
Sophie
So there’s a way of creating more, I would say consistent self regulation in, in our, in our lives. And it’s really not sorcery and it’s not new age either. It’s really attainable. You know, it’s scientifically backed fuels that we can just use in our daily lives. Micro habits, they change everything.

00:33:32:11 – 00:33:37:06
Claudia
Oh yeah. I mean, just taking a few deep breaths. Yeah. I mean, I find it’s a.

00:33:37:06 – 00:33:38:20
Sophie
Miracle it isn’t miracle.

00:33:38:23 – 00:34:09:14
Claudia
Really. It’s a miracle that it does. Yeah. I just want to circle also back to what you were talking about earlier, this obsession with youth and that’s, you know, brings me to our friend, Dale Hayden. Yeah. And, yeah, Dale passed away in the end of December and was a dear person. And, she also was on my podcast and she talked about how we need to embrace every age as it comes in every phase, as it comes.

00:34:09:14 – 00:34:37:13
Claudia
And, you know, she as a as a revolutionary mind and person in the world of beauty and fashion was really a trailblazer. So, and you also spoke so beautifully about her at the celebration of her life. And since this season is dedicated to her, maybe you can also just chat now, towards the end, a little bit about your friendship with her and about your experience.

00:34:37:13 – 00:34:57:20
Sophie
Yeah, her with with great pleasure. With great honor. I’m going to try to not become too emotional, you know, because we don’t have many, older woman friends who look over us. And she was one of them. They all had and was a supermodel. She was the face of L’Oreal for the people who don’t know her, of of aging, naturally.

00:34:57:22 – 00:35:20:17
Sophie
She had, you know, black hair, blue piercing, luminescent blue eyes. And if you Google her, you would see, oh, of course, I grew up with her, right? I remember her face. She had a reassuring gaze. There was a mother, but also a child in your in her appearance. And of all the things that I got to learn over time with Gail, she was a women’s woman.

00:35:20:17 – 00:35:42:14
Sophie
She supported women around her. She was not in competition with women around her. And the fact that, you know, of all people, she had immense pressure to look youthful as a model. She was also an author and a dancer, and she did so many things in an actor in her life and a mother. But Dale kept, I would say, her child healthy.

00:35:42:14 – 00:36:09:06
Sophie
She was playful. She was, you know, she was easy to make laugh. She, she would dance easily and giggle easily. And it felt to me like she wasn’t resisting life. There’s a great Lao Tzu saying it goes, it says, him who flows with life needs no other force. And in a way I, Gayle exuded that.

00:36:09:06 – 00:36:28:21
Sophie
It’s like there was an inner force to her and God knows she didn’t have. And the goddesses know that she didn’t have an easy life. That woman went through a lot of loss and pain, a lot of it. Without going into details. But she’s probably feeling us right now, watching over us as she was the guiding friend to me.

00:36:28:23 – 00:36:52:16
Sophie
And I’m sure she’s she’s giggling still because she loved life and she had a sense of belonging. And at her funeral, I use the quote by David White, who was a great poet, who said that innocence is one’s capacity to be found by the world, and then moves me to tears because poems.

00:36:52:16 – 00:36:53:16
Claudia
Yeah.

00:36:53:18 – 00:37:21:07
Sophie
Because it’s going back to the inner child. Because what we truly are truly trying to do here is to repacked ourselves and repaired the planet as the best parent possible. This is not to say we didn’t have the parents, but we abused the planet. We abused ourselves. We’ve used each other and our capacity to regain the innocence and the naivety of the child.

00:37:21:07 – 00:38:07:01
Sophie
Looking at each other in the world with curiosity and compassion is key to keeping democracies healthy. And our democracies are eroding, you know, and they’re becoming brittle. And of course, legislature and, and, you know, governments and social justice and taking care of the environment, all that is extreme, important. But if we don’t learn how we’re built as human beings and how we can intervene on our own state of body and mind, we will not be able to adapt to all of the changes that we’re facing, especially that they’re coming at such a fast pace with AI that there is a sense of urgency, that sense of urgency is a call to action.

00:38:07:03 – 00:38:31:17
Sophie
We can’t let it overwhelm us because we all know that climate change anxiety is real, that, you know, feeling overwhelmed by the rhythm of the world is real. And, you know, in my book, I interviewed the, the head of the department of, of mental health at the Ottawa Royal and, in Ontario, here in Canada. And he said that you know, a healthy brain is one that is in tune and can meet the rhythm of its environment.

00:38:31:19 – 00:39:01:19
Sophie
It’s quite cool. Like if you look at the at the scans or the whatever modulations of a depressed person’s brain. Apparently the modulations are very, very slow and very large, and the press person will feel like they can’t even get out of bed. They can’t keep up with the rhythm of life. And how can we keep up to be honest with this rhythm that is so unhuman.

00:39:01:21 – 00:39:26:14
Sophie
And because and I talk about this in the book and it’s really cool to learn, you know, every human being on this planet has obviously a brain and an autonomic nervous system. And we have two branches to the autonomic nervous system, the sympathetic branch, which is your fight, flight or freeze. We all have a tendency to where we go to when we’re triggered and the parasympathetic branch, which is your rest and digest.

00:39:26:16 – 00:39:50:11
Sophie
So it’s more of a calming state. So like you and I, Claudia, and anybody listening throughout the day will titrate it and will dance from one sympathetic to the parasympathetic and, and vice versa. But because of the way that we live, our disconnection from each other, our social isolation, you know, our stressors in everyday life that are not good stress, that are bad stressors.

00:39:50:13 – 00:40:17:17
Sophie
What’s happening is that we’re keeping human beings for too long or too quick, too fast into fight or flight or freeze. Now, when we stay in this state for too long, too quick or too fast, what happens? The body shuts down completely and says, I’m done, I’m done. I can’t do this anymore. And then we get people who are in darkness and depression and we judge it.

00:40:17:22 – 00:40:43:09
Sophie
We should not because these people’s bodies, right? We should not because these people bodies are sending them this signal that you can’t keep it up the way you used to. And by the way, the way that we deal with the stressors of life has to do with how we were raised. And our children born of attachment. So this is why in the book, I really start with the early childhood years and do the teenage years and the adulthood and the aging brain.

00:40:43:14 – 00:40:56:21
Sophie
So we all understand why is it that I act and react the way I do in my relationships today? Why? Without knowing the why, where are we going? This is crucial work. Crucial work. Yeah.

00:40:56:23 – 00:41:20:07
Claudia
It really is. And it’s so, well done in your book with the different examples, with the different interviews, with your personal perspective. It’s I think it was really cleverly done. And then also the exercises, you know, that gives me you immediately an opportunity to practice and to implement. But, you know, it’s a safe space because it’s a book and you can do it at your own terms.

00:41:20:09 – 00:41:28:04
Claudia
So, then maybe we can, you know, towards the end of this unbelievable, conversation and I could go on for hours.

00:41:28:04 – 00:41:31:10
Sophie
Yeah, but I see I see where we do. Yeah, but, yeah, we’re.

00:41:31:10 – 00:41:39:14
Claudia
Reaching the end. But maybe because we still have two minutes, we can do this, vagus nerve exercise that you talked about. I’m all.

00:41:39:14 – 00:42:00:03
Sophie
Yours. With pleasure. So just so you know, your vagus nerve, every human being has the vagus nerve. It’s the longest cranial nerve in your body. And it starts at the base of the brains, like the brain stem right here. And it goes through, you know, the face, below the ears, the throat region, the chest, your whole abdomen and the lower belly.

00:42:00:05 – 00:42:33:00
Sophie
And it regulates dozens of functions in your body, your heartbeat, heart rate, salivation, pupil dilation, digestion. And believe this or not, 75% of the signals exchange between your gut, brain and your brain, 75% is sent by the gut to the brain, to the brain. So we cannot divide those two either. So what you eat, how you sleep, how you move, what you bring your attention to, and who you hang out with becomes your body becomes you.

00:42:33:02 – 00:42:57:18
Sophie
So this practice is a quick vagus nerve reset. We can affect the vagus nerve in different ways through breathing exercises, through some types of touch. And we’re going to try this one because it’s easy to do sitting. So if you’re sitting right now, or you’re lying down, that’s fine too. Make sure that you take one deep breath through the nose and out through the mouth.

00:42:57:18 – 00:43:38:21
Sophie
So in through the nose for three, two, one and side of the mouth. Oh. And bring the shoulders away from the ears and make your tailbone and your hips heavy and your legs heavy, and your whole lower body like heavy. Like a rock, in a riverbed. Super heavy. And if you’re sitting, make the upper body almost weightless, as if it was a loving presence pulling you upwards toward the sky through your whole spine, and send your shoulders away from your ear loops.

00:43:38:23 – 00:44:08:08
Sophie
And notice if you’re trying to construct the breath or control anything in your breath, just let it go. Just let yourself be. Breathe. You don’t have to do anything here. You’re always in doing mode. We are humans being human beings, not human beings. This is our true nature. So one last time, through the nose, on a count of four, inhale 3 to 1 side, out the mouth.

00:44:08:10 – 00:44:25:23
Sophie
Now I want you to. If you have your eyes closed, that’s fine. But you want to look at me just for two seconds. You’re going to inhale your right arm up to the sky and place it on the left hand side of your head and tilt your head towards the right. You’re going to feel a stretch in the left portion of the neck.

00:44:26:01 – 00:44:44:15
Sophie
Tuck the chin in a little bit towards the chest. And here, relax your jaw. Relax the tongue in the mouth. Make space between your eyebrows.

00:44:44:17 – 00:45:17:07
Sophie
Relax your jaw even more. And just sense. Don’t think. Sense with patience and tenderness. This stretch and this side of the neck. And with both eyes. Stay exactly where you are. And with both eyes. Look to the opposite corner of where your head is leaning to both eyes. Gaze to the opposite corner of where your head is leaning to.

00:45:17:09 – 00:45:42:22
Sophie
Now we only have a couple of seconds left here with your breath breathing you. So just notice how patient you are with yourself. Do you want to get out of it? Are you analyzing? Let it go. Oh, here thoughts are just passing clouds. Just make your belly soft and your gaze soft. Soften your mouth and soften your throat.

00:45:43:00 – 00:46:07:11
Sophie
And on your next in our come back up very slowly. Oh and roll whatever needs to be rolled. And we’re going to take inhale our left arm up to the sky. Exhale it. Place it on the right hand side of the head and tilt the head to the left. Tuck the chin in towards the chest a little bit.

00:46:07:13 – 00:46:44:22
Sophie
And this time feel the stretch in the right side of the neck and shoulder. Notice if you’re holding on to the breath, let it breathe you. Your body knows exactly what to do. All you have to do is witness it. With vulnerable tenderness. Both eyes now look to the opposite side of where your head is leaning to. Notice if your holding tension in your jaw or between the eyebrows.

00:46:44:22 – 00:47:03:13
Sophie
Let it go. It’s time to let go. We’re safe, we’re good, and everything’s going to be okay. No matter what. Everything’s going to be okay no matter what.

00:47:03:15 – 00:47:15:08
Sophie
And come back up with the head and just get rid of any tension. You can roll the shoulders.

00:47:15:10 – 00:47:45:18
Sophie
One last breath through the nose and out the mouth. And just feel it a couple of seconds. What you created in two minutes. Just sense it. And imagine if every human being had access to this at every time in their life. Because we do, actually. So I invite you to use it as much as possible. Yeah. And to know that we’re never strangers on this path.

00:47:45:18 – 00:47:54:09
Sophie
And it was such an honor to be able to be part of your your journey, Claudia. And you’re this great podcast, and I send you all my best.

00:47:54:11 – 00:47:58:20
Claudia
Thank you, thank you. This was really a highlight, my friend, so much.

00:47:58:20 – 00:48:01:07
Sophie
Sophie, be well. Not.

00:48:01:10 – 00:48:02:16
Claudia
Yes, you as well.

00:48:02:16 – 00:48:20:23
Sophie
Oh, wow. Well, bye bye bye bye.

00:48:21:00 – 00:48:47:23
Claudia
I hope you will have a chance to listen to this important conversation more than once, and share it with your communities. Also do know that this vagus nerve exercise can be done a few times throughout each day. I actually will set a timer to do it at least three times during my busy day, as I’m feeling that I really benefit from it and how I do reconnect better to myself.

00:48:48:01 – 00:48:52:00
Claudia
Enjoy.

00:48:52:02 – 00:49:17:15
Claudia
Thank you for listening to Shift Happens. Please follow and subscribe to this podcast. It’s an easy hit for you with a huge impact for me. It helps me grow even further and bring you more conversations with women from around the globe. I am so happy to announce that the iconic Danish shirt brand Brett Soucek supports season four of Shift Happens.

00:49:17:17 – 00:49:50:00
Claudia
I love these shirts crafted in Europe, dedicated to the luxury of dressing with ease and delivering exceptional quality and enduring styles. Use code shift happens at checkout for 20% off your first purchase. Valid on full price items only. Shift Happens has been created and is hosted by me. Claudia Mahler, editing: Andy Boroson, social media: Magda Reckendrees.

00:49:50:02 – 00:49:55:14
Claudia
I hope you felt connected and heard by listening to Shift happens.