Cornelia Thomsen 

00:00:02:20 – 00:00:31:01
Cornelia
It was just unbelievable. And it actually still is, because I grew up with the indoctrinated knowledge that this would never change and that it would never see the world and they would never be able to travel, and maximum would be Prague or Budapest. But the rest of the world is just not moving to.

00:00:31:03 – 00:01:04:22
Claudia
Welcome back to Shift Happens. Today I’m so excited to share my conversation with East German born, New York based artist Cornelia Thomsen in August, just briefly after recording this episode. Her newest series of works has been acquired by The Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City. That is incredible. Cornelia and I have known each other for almost 20 years, sharing experiences and emotions, raising children in Manhattan together, an East German and a West German united on neutral grounds.

00:01:05:00 – 00:01:29:19
Claudia
Cornelia, a humble powerhouse, talks about her socialist upbringing and her early artistic work at famous Meissen porcelain manufactory. She shares how she had believed that the world she lived in would be it until the fall of the Berlin Wall, when she stormed into the big world and embraced it. Her world view became liberated by the discovery of abstract art.

00:01:29:21 – 00:02:12:17
Claudia
Cornelia talks about resilience being her superpower and how she persistently worked as an artist. Went to art school near Frankfurt with two small children at home. Moved to New York and started a gallery together with her husband and meanwhile three children. To be in her studio is her bliss, frustration, growth, challenge, fulfillment and so much more. Her work has been shown internationally and is in collections of world renowned museums like Lac, Minnelli Museum of Fine Arts in Houston, the Parrish Art Museum in Watermill, New York, and others.

00:02:12:19 – 00:02:39:12
Claudia
On another note, I’m so proud and excited to announce that shift happens. Season five is supported by London based jewelry brand Tilly Swears. Its founder, Tilly Swears creates gorgeous, timeless pieces that have been featured in Vogue, Harper’s Bazaar, Marie Claire, the New York Times. Her jewelry is for women of all ages. Guess who is wearing it? To no one less than Taylor Swift.

00:02:39:14 – 00:03:08:08
Claudia
Go to Tilly, Swisscom, that’s TLC, SVR, Nasscom and use code shift happens. One word capital letters to get 15% off.

00:03:08:10 – 00:03:09:15
Claudia
Here we are.

00:03:09:16 – 00:03:10:00
Cornelia
Yeah.

00:03:10:00 – 00:03:37:23
Claudia
Hello to Germans in New York. So we have met many, many years ago, and somehow accompanied each other on our path through New York City and witnessed each other. So I remember the very beginnings when you started painting the series of stripes, which is really your signature or has been for a long time, your signature work. So I’m glad you have this as your backdrop.

00:03:38:01 – 00:03:54:18
Cornelia
I think we met about 19 years ago when we moved to New York, and you had children in the same school, and then since then we come together and we meet and to develop and go forward and share our experiences.

00:03:55:00 – 00:03:57:12
Claudia
I can’t believe it’s been 19 years.

00:03:57:18 – 00:03:58:07
Cornelia
Yeah.

00:03:58:09 – 00:04:16:16
Claudia
So, Cornelia, before we start talking about your shift, which is a special shift because it’s not only affects you or had an influence on you, but it actually also influenced the world. But we get to that later. First, I want to know from you what is your current state of mind.

00:04:16:18 – 00:04:39:15
Cornelia
And my current state of mind is that we are going to uncertain times all over the world, and I hope we get through it without much harm. And, I try to do my best to keep my environment in good, positive shape. And, there is not much we can do. But this is my contribution.

00:04:39:17 – 00:04:44:22
Claudia
Good. Important contribution. What is something that made you smile this week?

00:04:45:00 – 00:05:01:23
Cornelia
Yeah, I came back from, Europe last week and, flew into New York, and it made me very happy to see the city and to see the possibilities, opportunities that always come with it. And that made me really happy.

00:05:02:01 – 00:05:06:01
Claudia
Can you share your secret superpower.

00:05:06:03 – 00:05:40:09
Cornelia
Yeah. So with all the years I think resilience is my superpower. And not giving up in spite of all the things that build up in front of me and actually of everybody. But, working through it and not giving up is, I think, what I would call my discipline. Discipline. And just getting myself back together and continuing.

00:05:40:11 – 00:06:13:02
Claudia
So now we are moving into your story, and you were born in East Germany, and you started working there and, you started working that in an artistic way, but not as an artist. I would say. So can you describe this most defining moment, for your life, which is the fall of the wall in 1989. And, and where were you actually on that evening?

00:06:13:04 – 00:06:37:16
Cornelia
As the fall of the wall is certainly the most defining event of my life, and it divides it in my life before and after and, both, intertwined. And I’m still working. And, I was at the night of the, an end of November and in the ninth in Meissen, but did not have a TV and also did not listen to the radio.

00:06:37:16 – 00:07:08:08
Cornelia
And today’s Meissen are the only two cities where you could not receive this German media. So I completely missed it. No idea that this happened, and then came back the next day to the Paulson Company. And everybody was excited. And then I learned trust that’s happened. From then on, things shifted and changed. And, with the fall of the wall, also big, problems arose and it was not just like the wall, the still.

00:07:08:08 – 00:07:32:12
Cornelia
No, everything was happy and everybody’s happy and everything was easy because, with that big event, the whole economy collapsed. Nobody wanted to buy German products anymore because they were of no quality. There was a huge number of people who lost their jobs. And for most women who worked, 93% of East German women work at that time.

00:07:32:17 – 00:08:01:20
Cornelia
And they were the first ones to stand on the streets. Still had to continue with their lives from one day to the next. But, everything changed and nobody knew how capitalism worked and nobody had an idea of it, or money or knowledge about investing something, opening a company or, trust yourself. Your, entrepreneurship. It was something that was went on for decades and,

00:08:01:22 – 00:08:05:14
Claudia
And how was it for you? Were you afraid of capitalism?

00:08:05:16 – 00:08:44:12
Cornelia
I was, 19, 20 years old, and I thought it was the most, wonderful thing that ever happened. I had a lot of relatives in West Germany, and we had contact, but we could never meet each other because you could not cross the border. And, it was just unbelievable. And it actually still is, because I grew up with the indoctrinated native knowledge that this would never change and I would never see the world, and they would never be able to travel, and maximum would be Prague or Budapest, but the rest of the world was just not available to me.

00:08:44:14 – 00:09:05:07
Cornelia
And, I then found a way to combine the new freedom with the security of the job, because I could stay at the manufacturer in my school, and they sent me out to different cities to talk about the product. I also had my first flight to to yes, and even to New York. And, it was really just unbelievable.

00:09:05:09 – 00:09:11:18
Cornelia
And I traveled a bit and my coach and I looked at anything possible. It was really fantastic.

00:09:11:20 – 00:09:18:07
Claudia
So you embraced the opportunity and there was no hesitance. And you jumped right in.

00:09:18:08 – 00:09:40:03
Cornelia
And I think so it was harder for my parents, who, were mid-forties at the time. They, tried, but it was a bit late for them to experience and lived in your freedom. But I was 20 and took. You know, when you’re young, you do things that you maybe don’t think through so much and, Yeah, yeah, I had five fantastic years.

00:09:40:05 – 00:10:01:11
Claudia
You go for it. So. But let me get back into the porcelain manufactory. So to be chosen to work there and to get a spot to be able to work, that was not and, you know, necessarily easy or normal or it’s not like here you apply for a job and, you know, if there’s an opening, you get it immediately.

00:10:01:11 – 00:10:02:09
Claudia
Right.

00:10:02:10 – 00:10:39:15
Cornelia
And it’s circumstances in East Germany was so different. And so we did not have the telephone. And I lived in a small city in the Torrington Forest, and somehow I got the atlas of the my company, which is, 200 miles away from where I grew up, and sent in a portfolio, which was then accepted. And then I was invited to do a three day tryout, and then they invited me to join a four year apprenticeship where you live in a boarding school, but mainly they like to have or next to have people whose parents or grandparents already were in the company.

00:10:39:15 – 00:11:08:10
Cornelia
So it was a generational development for them. But I was really lucky and my son at this time, and you know it because you also have a relationship to it, was, was the only company in East Germany that worked profitably and was kept in perfect shape because, it was shown to international guests and, produced luxury goods that nobody in East Germany could buy.

00:11:08:12 – 00:11:21:21
Cornelia
But, it was like an island of quality, history and, beauty. And it was very happy to be there. And for that time, it was fantastic for me to join that company.

00:11:21:23 – 00:11:28:16
Claudia
So in doing this four year apprenticeship, of course, you learned everything from like, watch them up, right?

00:11:28:18 – 00:11:54:04
Cornelia
Yeah. The, the first year you spent an entire show in a drawing school where you learn to draw and to do watercolors. And after that, you have three more years to paint on porcelain. And in the end of that, everything that you make looks like Meissen, because it’s the goal to produce something that’s being thought of as mice and porcelain, and there is no artistic freedom or, any possibility of inventing things.

00:11:54:06 – 00:12:00:04
Cornelia
But it’s just a high end craft. And, but for the time it was good.

00:12:00:06 – 00:12:03:01
Claudia
Were you allowed to sign your initials?

00:12:03:03 – 00:12:12:01
Cornelia
So you have a painter’s number that you put on every dish or whatever you paint. But that’s that’s not more.

00:12:12:03 – 00:12:18:07
Claudia
Have you ever found any of your pieces on a flea market or a resale or somewhere?

00:12:18:08 – 00:12:28:02
Cornelia
Yeah, I found, two pieces once in the various. But that’s a long time ago, and I have a few on my own things that I made, which I am happy about.

00:12:28:04 – 00:12:54:16
Claudia
So you were at Mason. The wall fell. You first didn’t know, then you found out, and then you got to work for the company. Like a brand ambassador. I guess, as we would put it, it seemed today. And then. Was it easy for you right away to then also embrace the possibility of yourself to become an artist and go down this free route.

00:12:54:18 – 00:13:17:10
Cornelia
And that’s my dream from childhood on was to become an artist. But, my, I didn’t find a way to, like, let me to myself and, And so shortly after the wall came down and I had a few years as an ambassador for the brand, I applied to several art academies with not accepted because it was nice and good.

00:13:17:10 – 00:13:40:11
Cornelia
I showed them and it was not an original artwork of mine, and I had just lost it over the years. And then, I applied for, an art academy program when I was already 31, had two children, and was married and worked in the family company of my husband’s family. And, by then I had a daughter.

00:13:40:13 – 00:14:04:19
Cornelia
Six years later, after the war came down. Now, ten years later, I had amassed so much experience. All the confidence had painted a lot that my portfolio was accepted right away in Austin, Barney in Frankfurt. It’s not a famous place, but it was good for me. And there, there I could, my degree is it was really fantastic.

00:14:04:21 – 00:14:10:05
Cornelia
And then what ever grateful to the professors who decided I could join the program.

00:14:10:07 – 00:14:13:21
Claudia
So you started your studies when you already had two children?

00:14:13:23 – 00:14:38:10
Cornelia
Yes. And then before I was a special case at the Academy because an artist with children starting at the children and also the, women who lived in the small city I had moved to near Frankfurt, did not approve of studying my children, so I was never in each group, but wanted it so much that I just worked it out.

00:14:38:10 – 00:14:41:10
Cornelia
And, I’m very happy about this. Yeah.

00:14:41:12 – 00:14:42:06
Claudia
Amazing.

00:14:42:10 – 00:15:06:23
Cornelia
And then I started out with, with, dealing with my past. The first paintings were about my upbringing in the east of Germany, and the painting behind me is actually a reminder of the Iron Curtain, which I then, over many years, transformed into a completely different work. And, I use this profession to actually deal with my history and my future.

00:15:07:01 – 00:15:14:17
Claudia
And you also said that I thought that was so interesting. The discovery of abstract art.

00:15:14:20 – 00:15:16:00
Cornelia
Yeah.

00:15:16:02 – 00:15:50:10
Claudia
So shifting from patterns that you had to, of course, with high artistic skills, apply to porcelain. And I mean, it’s all very, complicated and long process to then go and just, you know, have the free world, the free will, your will at your fingertips. Was that easy? Because you hadn’t really been exposed to abstract paintings and art before, I would assume, as this was not really conform to the government then.

00:15:50:11 – 00:16:18:12
Cornelia
Yeah. So abstract art was not promoted or shown in East Germany. It was always a form of the West Block and the East focused on socialist communism, painting the leaders in the best possible way. And art always had its function there. It was not for the sake of itself. And I had to learn that. It took me a while because I always put these two things, the patriotic thing with the art together.

00:16:18:13 – 00:16:45:10
Cornelia
But it’s a very, old fashioned idea stemming from the socialist upbringing. And then the abstract art, was something I was put into through my painting professor. And he said, take a look at this. This has no place yet in your life. Just no people and no flowers. Just look at this. And I looked at it and it seemed so familiar to me, and it was so easy to understand.

00:16:45:10 – 00:17:19:00
Cornelia
And I had no idea where I came from until I found out that, the student online could forget about it. But I grew up in the city where Friedrich founded the first kindergarten in the world in 1840, and his mission was to educate children with abstract shapes. My mother is the kindergarten teacher. Put these shapes in front of me in form of cubes and views and all kinds of things, and I grew up with building with these simplified shapes, houses, all kinds of things.

00:17:19:02 – 00:17:26:15
Cornelia
And this abstract thinking and seeing was introduced already, and it’s still very, very young, ancient kindergarten.

00:17:26:16 – 00:17:27:15
Claudia
It’s interesting.

00:17:27:15 – 00:17:53:19
Cornelia
And then, I completely had forgotten about it. And then, now the biggest part of my world is focusing on abstract art, on simplified shapes, which always stemmed from nature. So I’m not making up things. It’s all based on nature and then transformed. Or recently I use, mathematical ratios to visualize my ideas. And, this is where I ended up.

00:17:53:21 – 00:18:01:17
Cornelia
And, it’s in between all these other things and, interesting development.

00:18:01:19 – 00:18:06:06
Claudia
And when you moved to New York City with your family, you had three children.

00:18:06:07 – 00:18:06:21
Cornelia
Yes.

00:18:06:23 – 00:18:36:10
Claudia
And I mean, moving to New York City as a family is one thing, getting the children all into school. Then you, started cofounded, a gallery with your husband, specialized on, on Japanese antiques and Japanese fine art. You really seem like someone who does it all. And then you started out with your artistic career. Really? In a city that is so highly competitive?

00:18:36:12 – 00:19:09:02
Cornelia
As anyone can imagine, it was not an easy move to New York. Maybe easier for my husband since he is an American citizen. But I had to learn the language, which I spoke a little bit, but not really. Then to bring in sweet children into a new society and the metropolis and, having two freelance people trying to make it in New York with another gallery, we thought people were interested in, was quite, wishful thinking.

00:19:09:04 – 00:19:35:18
Cornelia
And, it took us a few years until we could really come down and see ground on the street, because there is no security net if you are a freelance person. It was honestly challenging. Yeah. And, the Lehman Brothers crash came one and a half years later. The art market froze, the bills came in, the children grew up, and, also, as a mother, we want the best.

00:19:35:18 – 00:20:04:00
Cornelia
But if you have to figure out yourself what’s going on, and then you take your kids from whatever, it was tough. And, but we wanted to be, like, always. You have to make the decisions that you made, right? Because you made it. And, Yeah. And then over time, the gallery established, a good reputation. And I never stopped working for my own sake.

00:20:04:01 – 00:20:31:09
Cornelia
I just had my small room or whatever. And just to hold onto myself, I made lines, I made small length, I made big stripes. I painted the Politburo of East Germany, all kinds of things to deal with this, new life and, make a mark to reassure my existence in this country. And this is maybe sounds like a lot, but this is really the way I work.

00:20:31:11 – 00:20:37:05
Cornelia
It’s just me to to deal with, life.

00:20:37:07 – 00:21:04:10
Claudia
What would you say from this. What do you think is like your richest, biggest learning from this fall of the wall and this extreme change from one societal form to another. Was it youth to help you navigate it so easily and with power or in a fearless way? Or what is the learning from you that you feel really influenced your life?

00:21:04:12 – 00:21:58:04
Cornelia
And so what I learned and is maybe the most profound, experience, is that the system can collapse absolutely from one day to the next, even though there were signs, demonstrations and, you know, but that something that’s set in stone changes overnight and influenced millions of people, that experience will never leave me. And therefore I’m always careful. And this, insecurity or need for safety, it’s a very big part of my life because you it the change is so profound going from socialism and this restrictive, surveillance life where you better hope back and, safe sense and put self-censorship on to you, to absolute freedom that you have to learn to accept, even

00:21:58:04 – 00:22:22:21
Cornelia
though it’s dance may, may be not difficult for a person who does not have this experience, but to to deal with no borders and opportunities that you never had, accept them and then go for it. That’s a big thing. And, there are not many East German people in the world because it’s still traumatized by this, limiting life to be like.

00:22:22:22 – 00:22:48:20
Cornelia
And to just go out and do it, not knowing what happens with your bad experiences. It’s yeah, that’s what I try to overcome. And I want to use that life. I want to live it. I want to paint the painting. So I come up with, with the idea that I want to invent things that have never been on this planet, which is like, so, big, go to have.

00:22:48:22 – 00:23:12:20
Cornelia
And then being honest to yourself, once you become a professional, you can also not lie to yourself. You know, whether this is good or not. And then to keep on doing it over decades. Now this is what I want to do. And, yeah, but the, the uncertainty that nothing is forever and nothing to see. I think that’s what I learned from the this makeshift.

00:23:12:22 – 00:23:15:05
Cornelia

00:23:15:07 – 00:23:25:03
Claudia
And yes. Wow. What a what a big life. What a big life. So you, you’re in New York City, you.

00:23:25:05 – 00:23:25:13
Cornelia
You.

00:23:25:15 – 00:23:52:02
Claudia
Evolve as an artist, you become more and more successful. And today your work is in in Los Angeles at the Los Angeles County Museum. Llama in the Museum of Fine Arts in Houston, the Minneapolis Institute of Arts, the Frederick Ferber Museum in Lang, Burke, Germany, and your work. One of the new works also has been acquired by the Paris Art Museum out in watermill.

00:23:52:04 – 00:24:16:02
Claudia
I mean, you are really, one powerhouse and and always so humble with it. How do you energize yourself? Like, I mean, you know, having to three children. I mean, of course, now they’re older and they’re all beautiful and fine and successful, but, you know, how do you then still take the brush and, you know, do your stripes without.

00:24:16:03 – 00:24:16:16
Cornelia

00:24:16:18 – 00:24:17:13
Claudia
Yeah.

00:24:17:14 – 00:24:19:15
Cornelia
Yeah. It’s really, how do.

00:24:19:15 – 00:24:20:23
Claudia
You motivate yourself.

00:24:21:02 – 00:24:45:18
Cornelia
As a this is not even necessary because I need to do that for my own sake. It’s like with writing a book, you know, it’s a constant thought process. What I do the next day, I know through the night or from the day before, and then maybe it works off and you go to your studio full of energy from, I would like nothing because nothing worked.

00:24:45:20 – 00:25:08:19
Cornelia
And you have some high times where you really can achieve something, and most of the time it’s not in your, it’s a lonesome profession, which I like, but, this is just my way of communicating with the world. I don’t dancing or. Right, I paint on print or drugs, and this is my outlet to the world, and I.

00:25:08:21 – 00:25:31:15
Cornelia
There’s nothing else I want to do. And this is the only thing that interests me and my children. They’ve gone down, grown up, and, I can really dedicate my time to this. And I’m also not interested in avant garde or stuff. I want to go deeper and to find out what it is. Maybe also a time in life when you do that after serving others.

00:25:31:16 – 00:26:03:13
Cornelia
Everybody. Yeah. And, waking up after certain hormonal changes where the energy goes from your middle of the body to your head and you think, see things clearer and become more refined, think. Now it’s with all the works I did all these years, I built a new I maybe another door opens, maybe another idea comes. But also what I do takes a lot of time, but that’s really what I wanted to.

00:26:03:15 – 00:26:20:01
Claudia
To establish yourself not only as an artist in New York City, but as a female artist, as a woman artist in New York City. Do you feel that you have made particular experiences because you’re a woman?

00:26:20:03 – 00:26:45:14
Cornelia
So I saw myself always not as a woman or a man, but as a human being that makes works of art or makes a line or whatever. And, and I still see myself like this, but in this society, in this, time, it’s not easy to be a woman in the market. It gets better. The market share is very small.

00:26:45:16 – 00:27:15:10
Cornelia
Having a working museum is, the most exciting thing. And shows it is another one who managed for work, you know, public collection, which I think it’s a it’s great. The, prices that are paid for women artists, I think the biggest one was 13 million, making for, for a country in civil order. Malindi, Ma, this is a lot.

00:27:15:10 – 00:27:40:16
Cornelia
But in comparison to male art, it’s not much. And, the women art world is always only looked at as the women artwork. They are not compared with the male art world. So it’s two separate things. Separate things, and, yeah. And I’m, so you can cry over this and can be very sad about it, or you can try and for them.

00:27:40:21 – 00:28:10:03
Cornelia
And it’s also not easy for female artists to make to become visible or get stolen or acquired, but, the women, in the arts, appear as maybe for only the last 50 years, there have been some examples in the past, like in my flint, the culverts, but there is no history. And so you can also not put relationships with women into what happened in the past.

00:28:10:03 – 00:28:30:00
Cornelia
And this overpass between men and women does not take place so much. And, so I think you can only just continue working and become visible, but it shouldn’t be not easy. But, although I must say to our galleries who show a lot of women and the focus is shifting.

00:28:30:02 – 00:28:42:09
Claudia
Yeah it is, it will take, it will take a time, it, it will take its time and it will take also artists like yourself to push through and pave the way for the generation that’s coming after.

00:28:42:11 – 00:28:50:20
Cornelia
Yeah. And I think every piece that enters the museum is obviously valid to be kept for the future. And that’s a good point.

00:28:50:22 – 00:29:01:03
Claudia
Yeah, it’s a very good thing. So, just, living in New York City, how do you calm yourself down?

00:29:01:05 – 00:29:21:20
Cornelia
As a, you need a good place to pull out of the energy and to sleep. Well, without them, you can’t do much. And, and I think also, like everybody who lives a long time, you find new places just necessary. And I go to my studio, close the door, and that’s my safe space.

00:29:21:20 – 00:29:39:08
Claudia
That’s your safe space. And, do you miss at all the countryside and the forests? That your the little village in the forest that you grew up in, or is this so remote also because it’s, you know, such different worlds that you’ve lived in?

00:29:39:10 – 00:30:07:02
Cornelia
Yeah, I totally miss it. And, my heart is still into India. But, so much has happened that I cannot see myself going back there because it’s. I couldn’t share with I but interests me like, you go there every year and you know, the roots and my feet when I walk around and I feel like I can do anything I want, but it’s, not the life I choose.

00:30:07:07 – 00:30:32:06
Cornelia
And, New York is, for me, the most effective, best place to be. It’s also not East or West Germany, which is a big, still a big problem after 36 years. And, I’m here on neutral ground with 8 million other people who have stories. And that’s it’s a good place to observe and to to calm down and to focus.

00:30:32:08 – 00:30:39:18
Claudia
Why do you think after 36 years, it’s still is this division between East and West Germany?

00:30:39:20 – 00:30:40:15
Cornelia
Yeah.

00:30:40:17 – 00:30:43:18
Claudia
It’s a question that I, that I always think about. Yeah.

00:30:43:20 – 00:31:09:05
Cornelia
Yeah. And so what I think about it is I spent 19 years in the East and 12 years in Frankfurt, so I experienced both sides, then 19 years in New York. And I think the, East German people have never been taken seriously. They have this huge advantage of having experienced and for the whole complete system and what comes with it.

00:31:09:06 – 00:31:35:17
Cornelia
But it’s not being heard. And there is a lot of resentment towards the people in the West who, don’t pay much respect to the people. And, and, I think it’s, if the people would talk more, it would be much easier. But there are so many prejudices from both sides. I’m. And I’m always in the middle that, but they don’t come together.

00:31:35:19 – 00:32:00:08
Cornelia
It’s also manifested after so many years, and, people are critical and not happy on both sides. And, they, they should meet more often. Yeah. I just gave a talk in Cologne about my upbringing and that seems like a story from a different planet. Even though I carry it with me, but there’s just not an interest between the two sides to come together.

00:32:00:10 – 00:32:15:20
Claudia
But you need to, but you need to continue. You need to continue to be vocal about it and to speak about it and to educate people about it. Yeah. Because yeah, that comes with your, you know, being being out there.

00:32:15:20 – 00:32:40:11
Cornelia
Yeah, yeah, I always try and I give a lot of talks about it and, yeah, it’s it’s a pity and and very hard to believe that after 36 years, it was not possible to come together. And one should also not forget there are only 12 million people in the East. It’s a very small group. It’s more than in Manhattan.

00:32:40:13 – 00:33:04:15
Cornelia
In in New York, I mean, yeah. Those two countries don’t come together with the same history, the same language, the same culture. And all the money this has been put in. Yes. Yeah. I just keep on talking about it and hope maybe. Yes, yes please do. So. Yeah.

00:33:04:17 – 00:33:29:15
Claudia
Okay. So that was brief insight into a really fascinating biography and a witness to something that again, you know, had had personal inclinations and really had such an impact on the world. So thank you for sharing your insights and yeah, for being here on shift happens.

00:33:29:17 – 00:34:00:12
Cornelia
Yeah. And I wanted to say that I am very grateful to you that you invited me to, to speak here and that you bring us together because we are all roaming around in New York, in Switzerland, in Berlin, and have ideas and then somehow lost that come because you don’t meet. But for years now, you bring women together who share experiences, who get encouraged, who to support and feel like, yes, I’m not alone and I can do something.

00:34:00:12 – 00:34:07:21
Cornelia
It’s a real thing. And this is because you do these wonderful podcasts. Thank you, thank you. Yeah. Thank you.

00:34:07:23 – 00:34:08:06
Claudia
Yeah.

00:34:08:11 – 00:34:13:02
Cornelia
Oh, okay. Be well YouTube.

00:34:13:04 – 00:34:14:17
Claudia
For the rest of your summer. Thank you.

00:34:14:17 – 00:34:15:19
Cornelia
So much. Thank you. Bye bye.

00:34:15:19 – 00:34:29:05
Claudia
Bye bye.

00:34:29:07 – 00:34:55:20
Claudia
I really liked the point that Cornelia made about the practically non-existent history of women artists groups. More or less. And if at all, only single ones stood out. So she feels it is important for women to be visible in what they do, to connect with each other, to thoroughly discuss ideas and experiences.

00:34:55:22 – 00:35:24:02
Claudia
Thank you for listening to Shift Happens. Please follow and subscribe to this podcast. It’s an easy hit for you with a huge impact for me. It helps me grow even further and bring you more conversations with women from around the globe. Shift happens has been created and is hosted by me. Claudia Mahler editing. Andy Boroson, social media Magda Reckendrees.

00:35:26:04 – 00:35:31:16
Claudia
I hope you felt connected and heard by listening to shift happens.